poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Feb 16, 2018 10:19:47 GMT
Like many others here, I feel that Lendy bear the majority of the blame for the disgraceful outcome of PBL081, PBL155 and others. Yes, the valuers were also at fault, and yes, each one of us willingly invested our money, but it was Lendy who offered up the loans as reasonable propositions, passed on the valuations to us with the implicit suggestion that they were valid, and put themselves forward as a responsible and honest company.
We used to live near an aerodrome in Belgium, and a parachuting company operated out of there. There were warnings up in the hanger saying that parachuting was a high-risk sport, and that people should be aware of this before participating. This did not mean, however, that the parachuting company could cut any corners they liked, fail to make proper safety checks on equipment, or put inexperienced instructors in charge of a bunch of newbies. Yes, people who chose to parachute did so at their own risk, but the parachuting company also had a duty of care to do their part properly. If someone was hurt due to negligence on the part of the company, no amount of "we warned them there were risks" would cover it.
My husband suggested this morning that a class action against Lendy would be a good thing, if someone were able to organise it. I don't know how realistic this would be, or whether the stress/benefit ratio would work out well. Another idea would be for a P2P charter to be drawn up, laying down the bare minimum that lenders would like to see in place to provide better protection against major losses. This could, for example, stipulate that more than one valuation of the security be sought if the loan is over a certain size, or of a certain kind. Perhaps firms like Strutt and Parker who set the auction guide price for the castle at 1.5 million, and who are experienced in quick sales of a range of properties, could be used as second valuers in the future, and provide some more realistic figures. It seems unlikely that they would have suggested 4.9 million.
Another requirement could be that a copy of the valuer's professional indemnity insurance be provided, so that it was clear to lenders that the valuation company could be pursued if their valuations turned out to be vastly out of line with reality. To be honest, as things stand, there's nothing to stop a dodgy borrower bribing a valuer to come up with a figure to suit the loans size they want. I know this is the UK, and bribery isn't really a part of our culture, but probably it does still happen.
The practice of suspending loans from being sold could also be banned - I see that many people have been caught out by this. Or perhaps there should be a requirement for lenders to have the option of being refunded if a loan suddenly turns out to have a different risk-profile than was originally though, or if the terms and conditions of the loan change.
Anyway, these are just some thoughts and ideas. It seems a pity to have a community like this, and not find some way of combining forces to improve future outcomes.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Feb 16, 2018 10:31:34 GMT
I haven't lost any money yet but I fully support investors organising themselves to make platforms more accountable and align their interests with our own.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Feb 16, 2018 10:36:37 GMT
Hi poppyland , have you seen this thread? p2pindependentforum.com/thread/9884/property-development-lendingMight be a place to start. It covers some of the issues you've raised and quite a few more, not just with Lendy. The only bit of what you've said that I disagree with is the suspending part. Lenders invest and by doing so bear that risk - to suggest that you might be given an out because it's starting to look hairy probably won't get you far. Some platforms don't even give lenders an opportunity to use an SM at all and are within their rights to do so, so think there's no mileage in that aspect. Other than that, best of luck, really.
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MarkT
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Post by MarkT on Feb 16, 2018 10:42:43 GMT
Personally, I think any class action against Lendy is doomed to failure while they can point to RICS valuations to support their DD. But I'm no lawyer.
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Feb 16, 2018 10:44:12 GMT
Hi poppyland , have you seen this thread? p2pindependentforum.com/thread/9884/property-development-lendingMight be a place to start. It covers some of the issues you've raised and quite a few more, not just with Lendy. The only bit of what you've said that I disagree with is the suspending part. Lenders invest and by doing so bear that risk - to suggest that you might be given an out because it's starting to look hairy probably won't get you far. Some platforms don't even give lenders an opportunity to use an SM at all and are within their rights to do so, so think there's no mileage in that aspect. Other than that, best of luck, really. Hi r00lish67. I do kind of agree with you about that, I must say, but included it because I've seen a lot of people very upset about it, mainly on the trustpilot reviews. At least people should be properly warned that it's a possibility that a loan might suddenly get suspended from trading. And thanks for the link!
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withnell
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Post by withnell on Feb 16, 2018 13:35:24 GMT
I agree that there should be no guaranteed get-out, however Lendy market their proposition as having a secondary market - I invested in multiple loans that have since been impacted by the Suspension policy, and have yet to see any evidence of why the suspensions cannot be lifted so that if an investor wishes to then invest on a revised risk profile they may do so
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webwizard
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Post by webwizard on Feb 16, 2018 14:15:41 GMT
Any class action would most likely not achieve anything, let alone cost a lot to action.
The most powerful action to take would be to change your personal threshold of investment. If individuals choose not to invest in the proposed loans, Lendy would have to make them better propositions.
Apart from that there is very little that can be done. The other approach would be to diversify widely (small amounts in a lot of loans), knowing that some will return and others will not.
The best thing Lendy can do to move forwards, is to provide MUCH MORE DETAILED INFORMATION. Personally, I do not mind taking on risk but I would like transparency of the information and then allow me to make an informed decision. At present I get the nagging feeling that there was something that I should have known but it was somehow obfuscated (possibly non-intentionally).
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p2p2p
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Post by p2p2p on Feb 16, 2018 14:35:24 GMT
I don't particularly want more information, as I'm not really qualified to do due diligence on it. But I'd be happy if Lendy collected more, and did more diligence, so I could trust them to normally provide good loans. But I don't require them to be perfect, I expect losses with p2p, and if that reduces my return from 12% to 6%, I'd still be happy. Expecting them to bail out every bad loan completely from a provision fund is unrealistic, to do so they'd just have to reduce their offered rates to 6% anyway, which would frustrate those who do think they have a loan picking edge.
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Post by investor1925 on Feb 16, 2018 14:36:48 GMT
Valuations can sometimes be a bit of a guesstimate based on all the relevant info to hand at the time, but to get it wrong by such a margin is quite frankly pathetic.
RICS should strike K*****m***** off
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mikeymike
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Post by mikeymike on Feb 16, 2018 14:50:46 GMT
Hi poppyland , have you seen this thread? p2pindependentforum.com/thread/9884/property-development-lendingMight be a place to start. It covers some of the issues you've raised and quite a few more, not just with Lendy. The only bit of what you've said that I disagree with is the suspending part. Lenders invest and by doing so bear that risk - to suggest that you might be given an out because it's starting to look hairy probably won't get you far. Some platforms don't even give lenders an opportunity to use an SM at all and are within their rights to do so, so think there's no mileage in that aspect. Other than that, best of luck, really. Thanks for that r00lish. Wish I'd come across it a while ago. Q to Admin: could it be pinned at top of threads??
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 15:10:12 GMT
poppyland - in reality nothing can be done unless it was possible to engage a lawyer on a no win no fee basis that was able to effectively destroy LY's T's&C's and then demonstrate a lack of Duty of Care. Platforms in general continue to be totally addicted to their own belief that it's all about the property as per the VR and the borrower has very little, if anything to do with it. This argument has been discredited on goodness knows how many occasions but nonetheless that is their stance. Platforms like to portray themselves - often self appointed, as professionals, experts, etc. The simple fact is that many borrowers are far more proficient at extracting funds, sorry our funds, which make many platforms look like basic amateurs.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Feb 16, 2018 16:21:52 GMT
Hi poppyland , have you seen this thread? p2pindependentforum.com/thread/9884/property-development-lendingMight be a place to start. It covers some of the issues you've raised and quite a few more, not just with Lendy. The only bit of what you've said that I disagree with is the suspending part. Lenders invest and by doing so bear that risk - to suggest that you might be given an out because it's starting to look hairy probably won't get you far. Some platforms don't even give lenders an opportunity to use an SM at all and are within their rights to do so, so think there's no mileage in that aspect. Other than that, best of luck, really. Thanks for that r00lish. Wish I'd come across it a while ago. Q to Admin: could it be pinned at top of threads?? Me pinning my own thread feels a little "look at me look at me". I'll check with the rest of the team and see what they think..... RM PS. Just typing "admin" in a thread doesn't summon the mods / admins, you either need to tag admin, or to report the post (the latter is normally the better option).
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Post by stevepn on Feb 16, 2018 16:22:27 GMT
a
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Post by stevepn on Feb 16, 2018 16:24:00 GMT
poppyland - in reality nothing can be done unless it was possible to engage a lawyer on a no win no fee basis that was able to effectively destroy LY's T's&C's and then demonstrate a lack of Duty of Care. Platforms in general continue to be totally addicted to their own belief that it's all about the property as per the VR and the borrower has very little, if anything to do with it. This argument has been discredited on goodness knows how many occasions but nonetheless that is their stance. Platforms like to portray themselves - often self appointed, as professionals, experts, etc. The simple fact is that many borrowers are far more proficient at extracting funds, sorry our funds, which make many platforms look like basic amateurs. The only thing professional about Le*dy is ability to lose lenders money on a grand scale and strangely enough they keep doing the same thing and get away with it.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 16, 2018 16:32:13 GMT
Thanks for that r00lish. Wish I'd come across it a while ago. Q to Admin: could it be pinned at top of threads?? Me pinning my own thread feels a little "look at me look at me". I'll check with the rest of the team and see what they think..... RM PS. Just typing "admin" in a thread doesn't summon the mods / admins, you either need to tag admin, or to report the post (the latter is normally the better option). registerme - it should be pinned and starred IMO and be compulsory reading!!! - okay only joking about the reading bit but it does contain some very relevant material.
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