baz657
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Post by baz657 on Aug 8, 2014 12:23:41 GMT
Before I had a shadow account (which is almost full up) I bid on loan No. 97 W*** M******* E***** B*******. That was two months ago. It's still not drawn down. When it does eventually draw down (hopefully next week?) there will probably be loan units available on the AM.
Why should I have dead money for over two months? And if somebody is sensible someone is earning off it - who would that be then?
Having dead money for this amount of time negates the advertising hype about the 12%+ obtainable.
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Post by chris on Aug 8, 2014 12:37:06 GMT
Before I had a shadow account (which is almost full up) I bid on loan No. 97 W** M******* E***** B*******. That was two months ago. It's still now drawn down. When it does eventually draw down (hopefully next week?) there will probably be loan units available on the AM. Why should I have dead money for over two months? And if somebody is sensible someone is earning off it - who would that be then? Having dead money for this amount of time negates the advertising hype about the 12%+ obtainable. These are issues we've been working hard to resolve. We have a very active aftermarket and some of the changes for the relaunch of the site, both front and back office, are aimed at addressing drawdown delays and dead money. A great deal of effort has gone into speeding up the drawdown process, the positive effects of which should have started to become apparent in recent weeks.
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Post by lynnanthony on Aug 8, 2014 12:51:44 GMT
Before I had a shadow account (which is almost full up) I bid on loan No. 97 W** M******* E***** B*******. That was two months ago. It's still now drawn down. When it does eventually draw down (hopefully next week?) there will probably be loan units available on the AM. Why should I have dead money for over two months? And if somebody is sensible someone is earning off it - who would that be then? Having dead money for this amount of time negates the advertising hype about the 12%+ obtainable. How much does a shadow account negate the problem? I can see that it stops your money being tied up earning zero percent but you still need to have the money available to fulfil your commitment which will come at short notice and unpredictably - so at best it is earning derisory interest in a no notice account. Or am I missing something in how a shadow account can be operated to avoid dead money?
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Post by whitmanthecat on Aug 8, 2014 13:57:50 GMT
As ar as I'm aware, normal bids are sat in the trust account, which doesn't earn any interest, so no-one else is gaining from the dead money.
Having a shadow account doesn't eliminate the need for some cash float. I've now reached the limit of what I want to lend with AC but have still made a number of shadow bids. There are a number of loans that should be redeeming over the next month or so and the funds from these will ultimately be used to fund the new loans. Yet I can't be sure when the loans will draw down, or if the old loans will redeem on time. Hence I need to keep some cash (in a Santander 123 account - earning 3% so much less than AC but better than nothing) in case a shadow settlement is needed before a redemption happens.
I also sell units on the aftermarket to meet shadow requests, though some loans are a lot more liquid than others. Those units that are easy to sell can then be difficult to buy back when there are spare funds. Selling units might not work so well for those trying to build their portfolio.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 8, 2014 14:15:00 GMT
No. As a small investor without a shadow account. I used to surrepetiously keep my phone on me at work so that the minute the email came through announcing the start of a bridging loan i might have a chance of getting a foot in. Now it isnt necessary as can generally pick up quality loans on the aftermarket as and when I want and dont tie up my money waiting for drawdown. The last loans I actually bid on were the WSM D......t L... and the R...... D..... L.... both of which are still not drawndown or even look like being so. Fortunately they reverted to prebid and the money has been earning 12% on another plattform since. I have subsequently invested a similar amount on Assetz in the aftermarket & will continue to add to money to the platform as when opportunities arise on the AM but see no incentive in bidding on loans.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Aug 8, 2014 15:22:24 GMT
It's always tricky to get a good return as a small investor. At least P2P gives you more of a chance.
Without a shadow account I would guess you'll get better returns from the aftermarket. Although AC has suffered drawdown delays, at least they have a fee-free aftermarket that helps everyone adjust their portfolios to their taste without incurring charges.
The problem comes if there is a particularly attractive loan, in which case it might be scarce on the aftermarket, and then you need to absorb the drawdown delays to be confident of getting in on the action.
I found that if I topped up my account to the next £100 from time to time, then auto-invest would manage to find something to buy within a few days. This has helped me build a fairly diversified portfolio without too much dead cash.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Aug 8, 2014 15:33:54 GMT
At the moment all investors, large and small, are best off buying on the aftermarket if they can. I have a shadow account but am now only using it for smaller loans where there may not be much available on the aftermarket.
I see no point in making "real" bids unless it is clear that (1) drawdown will be very quick, and (2) there won't be much on the aftermarket. But even then, I'd only bid if I really wanted the loan.
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Post by gingergent on Aug 8, 2014 19:04:17 GMT
I think some of this is the side-effect of a fee-free AM and our own calls for there to be no mark-up opportunity; there's little upside to bidding on PM, and a downside that depends on the (unknown) drawdown time vs the (known) maturity. I'm still in favour of no mark-up, since we know from other platforms whence that leads, but there might be an interesting argument for providing a "first-holder" bonus rate for primary bidders and turning everyone into a mini-underwriter. It only needs to under-cut the underwriters to be cost-effective for AC, and might bring more demand back to the PM.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Aug 8, 2014 21:15:18 GMT
I think some of this is the side-effect of a fee-free AM and our own calls for there to be no mark-up opportunity; there's little upside to bidding on PM, and a downside that depends on the (unknown) drawdown time vs the (known) maturity. I'm still in favour of no mark-up, since we know from other platforms whence that leads, but there might be an interesting argument for providing a "first-holder" bonus rate for primary bidders and turning everyone into a mini-underwriter. It only needs to under-cut the underwriters to be cost-effective for AC, and might bring more demand back to the PM. I like what you're saying but AC might say look at the Yacht Loan on the PM now, where there's the prospect of interest from after four weeks whilst still having security enacted (ie not drawn) and it's only attracted 36K from Lenders when I last checked. Of course there may be 'other' reasons why this is not liked. IN EDIT The Yachting Loan has only received 31,680k from Lenders not 36k
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Post by gingergent on Aug 9, 2014 6:22:48 GMT
I like what you're saying but AC might say look at the Yacht Loan on the PM now, where there's the prospect of interest from after four weeks whilst still having security enacted (ie not drawn) and it's only attracted 36K from Lenders when I last checked. Of course there may be 'other' reasons why this is not liked. I think it might take a bit more than pre-drawdown interest or an extra half point to tempt me to go there; it rather looks like AC's underwriter group might have the same thoughts.
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on Aug 13, 2014 20:35:34 GMT
This is probably a really stupid question and the answer will be so obvious but....
We're having to wait so long between auction end and drawdown on many loans. Why not start the normal "bread & butter" auctions a couple of weeks (or more) later, and therefore when they close there will be less of a delay between auction end and drawdown?
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markr
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Post by markr on Aug 13, 2014 21:11:54 GMT
This is probably a really stupid question and the answer will be so obvious but.... We're having to wait so long between auction end and drawdown on many loans. Why not start the normal "bread & butter" auctions a couple of weeks (or more) later, and therefore when they close there will be less of a delay between auction end and drawdown? I asked pretty much the same question a while ago and didn't really get an answer. Since then, FC have started doing property loans which draw down the same day as the auction ends, or even before the set end date if they fill beforehand, so what do they do differently?
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Aug 13, 2014 23:57:45 GMT
This is probably a really stupid question and the answer will be so obvious but.... We're having to wait so long between auction end and drawdown on many loans. Why not start the normal "bread & butter" auctions a couple of weeks (or more) later, and therefore when they close there will be less of a delay between auction end and drawdown? I asked pretty much the same question a while ago and didn't really get an answer. Since then, FC have started doing property loans which draw down the same day as the auction ends, or even before the set end date if they fill beforehand, so what do they do differently? I really don't know why FC can do it quicker, but we can all guess, and I can't see AH, chris or davidricketts1 explaining the difference. I'm sure they will only say something like we pay our very experienced legal team to do the best job possible in making the contracts water-tight, and that we can't comment on other businesses etc. Then they might point to a recent AC loan that seems to be running quite well but only because of the said legal team etc...
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Aug 14, 2014 0:59:39 GMT
I asked pretty much the same question a while ago and didn't really get an answer. Since then, FC have started doing property loans which draw down the same day as the auction ends, or even before the set end date if they fill beforehand, so what do they do differently? I really don't know why FC can do it quicker, but we can all guess, and I can't see AH, chris or davidricketts1 explaining the difference. I'm sure they will only say something like we pay our very experienced legal team to do the best job possible in making the contracts water-tight, and that we can't comment on other businesses etc. Then they might point to a recent AC loan that seems to be running quite well but only because of the said legal team etc... I can't really comment on FC as I don't invest there at all, but I guess it's got to do with how much work is done before an auction, and as AC don't fund loans themselves I guess they don't do very much. SS turns them round pretty quickly too (I'm talking property loans here), but they've already funded (or underwritten) them before they get on the platform, and the DD and paperwork is virtually complete. From an investors view point you could almost miss draw-down altogether on SS as interest is paid as soon as you fund as well. Perhaps if AC had confidence that they could get loans completely underwritten they could get closer to actual draw-down before they go to auction. Perhaps its also got something to do with the way their own fees and costs are charged / absorbed? Borrower interest penalties for slow draw-down is encouraging, but I wonder how much it will help in reality especially if it goes with the puff of smoke if the deal collapses. Anyway lets hope the veiled promises live up to expectations cause its no more bidding for me (even at increased interest rates) until they do.
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Post by chris on Aug 14, 2014 8:18:01 GMT
It takes time to properly do DD and complete the legals to correctly register the security. It could be that FC are guaranteeing funding for the loans or offering to compensate their borrowers for any fees incurred if the loan is not funded, or they may be doing things differently to us from a legal point of view - I have no idea. We have our own solutions and changes in procedures in place that will kick in with the new platform that will see much more favourable drawdown times for our lenders.
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