11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 11, 2018 12:42:15 GMT
It sounds to me that this occurred after RR were kicked off and just before BDO were appointed. There were reports from the BDO appointment court case that the IT platform was still active because some high-level investors had allegedly received access to it. The site was also still up and running until recently. My feeling is that the Currie's conveniently decided to let all of the staff go and de-commission the IT servers just prior to BDO being appointed - presumably to either cover their tracks or at least make the incoming administrators job significantly harder out of spite. All this is surely going to leave the Currie brothers in a very tight spot
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victors
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Post by victors on Jun 11, 2018 12:43:15 GMT
Agree ilmoro.
If the FCA had not got involved at all what would be happening now.
My guess is Collateral would still be running, paying interest and receiving repayments.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Jun 11, 2018 12:45:57 GMT
Agree ilmoro. If the FCA had not got involved at all what would be happening now. My guess is Collateral would still be running, paying interest and receiving repayments. Do you really believe this, given all the evidence of what the people running the show have been up to? I'm fairly sure we also saw a statement somewhere that in fact the FCA only became involved once they were alerted by investor contact *after* the directors claimed to appoint administrators.
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empirica
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Post by empirica on Jun 11, 2018 12:46:08 GMT
Am I reading something different to everyone else? From the FAQ:
"The Joint Administrators’ have been advised that the electronic Collateral platform, and all the data which it hosted (including back-ups of the platform), was held on third party servers which had been decommissioned prior to our appointment, and was therefore not available to the Companies.
We have identified the third party server provider, however, and we are currently in correspondence with the provider to determine what action, if any, can be taken to recover the data. A further update will be provided in due course."
To me, that reads like we've been told it's gone, but it hasn't been confirmed and we're working to establish the facts.
That the third party provider hasn't already given a flat 'no chance' is encouraging, in my opinion.
Await more info on the 22nd. (Although possibly an extension in offing given the evident number of gaps in some areas.)
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jun 11, 2018 12:55:47 GMT
Picking up on one point, it is comforting to read that they know who all the investors are and they know how much each investor had on the platform. That is a piece of information that I don't know myself other than having a guess which will be right to within a couple of thousand. It would be reassuring if they could at least contact each investor/creditor to confirm the size of their investment. It would be a great comfort to me if I least had something from BDO saying we confirm the records show you had £***** invested. I'm slightly confused as to how they have the above mentioned information when they have no access to the IT platform and individual loan exposure details. The information most likely comes from having control of the Bank Accounts, this should easily show the source of all investor funds, but not its destination due to the lack of Platform information, therefore everyone is in the same creditor boat, which is certainly not a happy place to be.
Possibly, but it concerns me because I am someone who withdrew all my P2P interest every month so while I made monthly withdrawals this did not reduce my investment. I hope that the source of this information is detailed enough to distinguish between capital and interest withdrawals and will not just identify payments in and payments out - without any knowledge of what the loan spread was and therefore how much of the 'out' was interest .
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 11, 2018 12:58:03 GMT
Agree ilmoro. If the FCA had not got involved at all what would be happening now. My guess is Collateral would still be running, paying interest and receiving repayments. Do you really believe this, given all the evidence of what the people running the show have been up to? I'm fairly sure we also saw a statement somewhere that in fact the FCA only became involved once they were alerted by investor contact *after* the directors claimed to appoint administrators. Not supported by the FCA official statement which clearly indicates involvement prior to the appointment of administrators.
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Post by mrclondon on Jun 11, 2018 13:04:12 GMT
empirica I tend to agree that BDO are likely to be considering the merits of seeking court approval to extend the initial 8 week deadline to present their proposals.
However, I feel the more critical paragraph in the FAQ to be the one suggesting we are creditors (and not, by inference, ringfenced client investors). This has major implications irrespective of the granuality of the records on individual lenders that BDO currently have, or might in the future have access to.
In answer to a post a few weeks ago I hypothesised that this might end up being classified as an unregulated collective investment scheme (UCIS). Today's news tends to support that as a possible outcome.
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jo
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Post by jo on Jun 11, 2018 13:11:49 GMT
Looks like the FCA has excelled itself again ... protecting investors by potentially costing them money.
Asleep for months, woke up, smelt the coffee and trashed the joint through hyperactivity.
I have long nursed a nagging suspicion that it would suit the FCA right down to their Saturday salmon-red trousers for this to turn into a scandal. The establishment hates 'new' finance and a bloody nose might 'bring them to their senses'. 
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mary
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Post by mary on Jun 11, 2018 13:15:20 GMT
The information most likely comes from having control of the Bank Accounts, this should easily show the source of all investor funds, but not its destination due to the lack of Platform information, therefore everyone is in the same creditor boat, which is certainly not a happy place to be.
Possibly, but it concerns me because I am someone who withdrew all my P2P interest every month so while I made monthly withdrawals this did not reduce my investment. I hope that the source of this information is detailed enough to distinguish between capital and interest withdrawals and will not just identify payments in and payments out - without any knowledge of what the loan spread was and therefore how much of the 'out' was interest . Good point, if its just the Bank records, then all they can tell is IN minus OUT, and all interest is left in the pot un-traceable to specific investors, presumable left covering Administrator Costs and First Losses.
Really bad news for longer term COL investors (if my assumption is correct, which is really just a guess), unless you have downloaded regular statements of interest from your account, and then you are in a position to at least try to prove your claim.
NB. Note to self, start downloading all statements immediately for all Platforms, at least monthly!
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 11, 2018 13:20:10 GMT
Possibly, but it concerns me because I am someone who withdrew all my P2P interest every month so while I made monthly withdrawals this did not reduce my investment. I hope that the source of this information is detailed enough to distinguish between capital and interest withdrawals and will not just identify payments in and payments out - without any knowledge of what the loan spread was and therefore how much of the 'out' was interest . Good point, if its just the Bank records, then all they can tell is IN minus OUT, and all interest is left in the pot un-traceable to specific investors, presumable left covering Administrator Costs and First Losses.
Really bad news for longer term COL investors (if my assumption is correct, which is really just a guess), unless you have downloaded regular statements of interest from your account, and then you are in a position to at least try to prove your claim.
NB. Note to self, start downloading all statements immediately for all Platforms, at least monthly!
Well if it helps me I don't know yet , but I am pretty sure I have every email to and from Collateral
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Jun 11, 2018 13:26:21 GMT
Do you really believe this, given all the evidence of what the people running the show have been up to? I'm fairly sure we also saw a statement somewhere that in fact the FCA only became involved once they were alerted by investor contact *after* the directors claimed to appoint administrators. Not supported by the FCA official statement which clearly indicates involvement prior to the appointment of administrators. Yes, you're right. I must be misremembering that part. Nevertheless, I think my first point still stands - the fact that the situation is as it is surely says a lot about the people behind Collateral, and possibly at RR. Knowing what we know now, I can't imagine that everything would have been fine had the FCA not taken action.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Jun 11, 2018 13:29:29 GMT
A worrying point to me is that the platform was de comissioned prior to BDO taking over. That platform is/was key to providing the information on what investors had put into each loan. RR knew that and has control of funds prior to BDO commencing they could have paid the fee (if needed) to extend its existence or taken a download as could The Brothers (either party may have done so) its so basic thats what anyone would have done
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Post by angrykittens on Jun 11, 2018 13:36:08 GMT
Well if it helps me I don't know yet , but I am pretty sure I have every email to and from Collateral This, I have every email I have ever received archived in Gmail, and if necessary I can turn that into a statement, although it would be a last resort as I imagine a PITA and a lengthy process! I doubt BDO would even take emails at face value as proof anyway. Emails can be faked. I find it interesting how the administrators are planning to treat us as creditors under Section 26 as they reference in their FAQ: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/8/section/26 Which states: (4)This section does not apply if the regulated activity is accepting deposits.Well, one could argue, Collateral merely accepted deposits from investors, as it was always stated that loan agreements were directly between us and borrowers? Just my naive fallacy I'm sure  I've no doubt the establishment will allow BDO to take a hefty chuck from the coffers and Investors will be left with short shift.
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 11, 2018 13:36:19 GMT
A worrying point to me is that the platform was de comissioned prior to BDO taking over. That platform is/was key to providing the information on what investors had put into each loan. RR knew that and has control of funds prior to BDO commencing they could have paid the fee (if needed) to extend its existence or taken a download as could The Brothers (either party may have done so) its so basic thats what anyone would have done Yes , I agree with this totally , But there is a distinct difference between de-commissioning and wiping/destroying information , afaik we haven't been told which of the 2 has actually occurred yet . Hopefully not the later but if so then people need to be held accountable for this
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Jun 11, 2018 13:42:38 GMT
A worrying point to me is that the platform was de comissioned prior to BDO taking over. That platform is/was key to providing the information on what investors had put into each loan. RR knew that and has control of funds prior to BDO commencing they could have paid the fee (if needed) to extend its existence or taken a download as could The Brothers (either party may have done so) its so basic thats what anyone would have done Yes , I agree with this totally , But there is a distinct difference between de-commissioning and wiping/destroying information , afaik we haven't been told which of the 2 has actually occurred yet . Hopefully not the later but if so then people needs to be held accountable for this I have a suspicion that the Currie's defence is going to rely on the fact that the FCA froze everything prior to the appointment of BDO. Perhaps the Currie's will say that they were unable to pay the hosting/IT platform bill due the actions of the FCA not allowing them to spend money etc. If it's indeed intentional/malicious then they're surely going to be looking at some serious jail time.
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