IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 11, 2018 15:57:48 GMT
[/quote] Like everything associated with this sorry affair.
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Post by spareapennyor2 on Jun 11, 2018 16:00:20 GMT
with no Database/ or secure backup DB (disks/tape )
how can DBO match our accounts (burning the books/logs)
so no matched accounts/ no tax statements?
may know how much we deposited/withdraw but as to each account?
think FCA needs to review how site / maintain secure backup Databases
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jo
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dead
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Post by jo on Jun 11, 2018 16:13:38 GMT
I can't remember, have we seen their last audited (lol) Report & Accounts?
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Jun 11, 2018 16:15:41 GMT
They seem to be justifying making us creditors under s26 FSMA.
If you read that it effectively states that the defaulting party (i.e the unregulated company carrying out reg activities) cannot enforce against the other party. SO surely two things follow from that
1. Collateral cannot enforce its loan contracts against borrowers.
2. Collateral cannot enforce against lenders.
The first point is quite easy to deal with. The loans themselves were almost certainly unregulated loans so they (admins) can enforce those.
The second point however is more difficult. It seems clear to me that the law specifically states the defaulting party (col) cannot enforce against lenders but does NOT say that innocent party cannot enforce against col and therefore it is difficult to argue that to be the case when it clearly states the other way only.
It also states that the section does NOT apply to accepting deposits. But if Col were not regulated (as is clearly the case) then that is exactly what they were doing - accepting deposits without permission.
Shaky ground indeed and a seemingly misguided attempt at screwing investors - this needs to be challenged otherwise I feel we are looking at an 18 month delay to get ANY payments and probably a 50% plus haircut
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 11, 2018 17:18:34 GMT
think FCA needs to review how site / maintain secure backup Databases The problem isn't that the running business didn't back up. It's that somebody deleted everything at some point during the administration fiasco...
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 11, 2018 17:21:47 GMT
think FCA needs to review how site / maintain secure backup Databases The problem isn't that the running business didn't back up. It's that somebody deleted everything at some point during the administration fiasco... Definitely and that is what needs to be followed up , not lifting the legs of thousand of investors just because that is easier money 
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 11, 2018 17:24:07 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 11, 2018 17:38:35 GMT
The problem isn't that the running business didn't back up. It's that somebody deleted everything at some point during the administration fiasco... Definitely and that is what needs to be followed up , not lifting the legs of thousand of investors just because that is easier money Except if the data's been deleted, then what? OK, so you can lay criminal charges... it doesn't get it back. They DO, at least, have account balances. But that doesn't get you any further forward in anything bar going one-pot, does it? If the data doesn't exist any more, it doesn't exist any more, no matter how much you might wish it did.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jun 11, 2018 17:55:09 GMT
That's made me feel a lot better ...... NOT 
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hendragon
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Post by hendragon on Jun 11, 2018 17:58:21 GMT
Undecided if being regarded as a creditor is a blessing or a curse. Should you be mostly exposed to the grouped asset style of loan (cars and bling), Col never held the items as security, and it sounds as if it will be hell's own job the get the borrowers to repay.At least the property loans have legal charges which should be more enforceable.
If the indivdual investor information is not recoverable then regarding investors as creditors is probably the only solution, and may benefit some, and be to the detriment of others.
With reference to the suggestion that laying a criminal prosecution will not bring the data back..............well that is correct. However if information has been deliberately lost or obscured and is contravention to British law then the b****** that have done so should not be allowed to get away with it, and the FCA (if they are truly intent on protecting investors) need to to get the police involved.
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Jun 11, 2018 18:01:32 GMT
Definitely and that is what needs to be followed up , not lifting the legs of thousand of investors just because that is easier money Except if the data's been deleted, then what? OK, so you can lay criminal charges... it doesn't get it back. They DO, at least, have account balances. But that doesn't get you any further forward in anything bar going one-pot, does it? If the data doesn't exist any more, it doesn't exist any more, no matter how much you might wish it did. No it doesn't but do you honestly believe that there is not one shred of information about whose money is where ( apart from Investors own records) and that all the loan agreements are safe and sound but nothing else ? If they have purposely been deleted then people need to be charged and assets seized
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 11, 2018 18:07:32 GMT
but do you honestly believe that there is not one shred of information about whose money is where ( apart from Investors own records) and that all the loan agreements are safe and sound but nothing else ? The alternative is that BDO are knowingly and deliberately lying. I know which I think is more likely, even before we consider the various earlier issues. Absolutely.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jun 11, 2018 18:17:01 GMT
Except if the data's been deleted, then what? OK, so you can lay criminal charges... it doesn't get it back. They DO, at least, have account balances. But that doesn't get you any further forward in anything bar going one-pot, does it? If the data doesn't exist any more, it doesn't exist any more, no matter how much you might wish it did. No it doesn't but do you honestly believe that there is not one shred of information about whose money is where ( apart from Investors own records) and that all the loan agreements are safe and sound but nothing else ? If they have purposely been deleted then people need to be charged and assets seized I doubt anybody would admit to doing it on purpose.
More likely would be that the data had been lost 'accidentally', owing to some confusion. Say during the handover period from the first Administrator to the current ones. e.g. somebody didn't realise they needed to renew the third party server/website hosting account. Although this would surprise me a little.. not least because it's usual for server people to keep stuff for a while for everyone's protection, and so that a client can change their mind and reactivate their account/website within a set period. Given we were led to believe the website/database was intact in late April I'd be surprised if it was irretrievable by early June.
Also, we were told today that efforts were still being made to get a back up copy from the web server company and there will be a further update on this. So all is not lost .. yet.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 11, 2018 18:36:28 GMT
"I wonder if any of the offers to purchase the loan book still stand (if they ever really existed)?"
Well, I was told straight by the Director of one Platform that an offer to Purchase certainly does exist.
And they are apparently still waiting for a reply.
The FCA/BDO can't rush into anything you know, might cost them.
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TFTO
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Post by TFTO on Jun 11, 2018 18:44:42 GMT
"I wonder if any of the offers to purchase the loan book still stand (if they ever really existed)?"Well, I was told straight by the Director of one Platform that an offer to Purchase certainly does exist. And they are apparently still waiting for a reply. The FCA/BDO can't rush into anything you know, might cost them. If only the FCA really acted in the best interests of those likely to lose money. It's all fine and dandy to blame the owners of Col for the sloppy and stupid way they ran the company but the FCA have been pathetic in their response.
Why could they not have given temporary permission on the understanding that the loan book was run down or sold - it would have saved all this mess.
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