ablender
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Post by ablender on Mar 5, 2018 11:42:52 GMT
And what exactly do you think that investors should have done? Go and sit in their office? As per my usual droning on about the subject, investors need to do their own DD on the platforms prior to carrying out DD on the loan offerings. It's no use hoping the FCA 'fit and proper' person test is adequate as IMO it's certainly not. I know doing DD can be time consuming but with many loans we're investing in the sub-prime market. Best to make sure the platform owners are not sub-prime as well. There's at least a couple of P2P platforms that I wouldn't loan a pencil to let alone invest my hard earned cash with. Doing my DD on Collateral it showed that they had an IP. I lent through COL on that basis as I did on SS and MT and ABL when they had IPs. What else do you suggest?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Mar 5, 2018 12:08:30 GMT
Maybe this comment is a little naive and premature for a professional to make. She is clearly talking on the present position based on the current information. I cannot agree with your position. If things change her analysis will change too as she puts this clearly with her choice of words.
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Post by winger on Mar 5, 2018 12:12:44 GMT
The lawyers and compliance specialists definitely did not put up the current, [bogus], 'down for server upgrade' webpage/announcement. That's not how you do it. I'm amazed that the website still says the same thing. Surely by now it should stop lying and say something like: "This company is in administration..........For all enquiries please contact...."?
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 5, 2018 12:18:56 GMT
As per my usual droning on about the subject, investors need to do their own DD on the platforms prior to carrying out DD on the loan offerings. It's no use hoping the FCA 'fit and proper' person test is adequate as IMO it's certainly not. I know doing DD can be time consuming but with many loans we're investing in the sub-prime market. Best to make sure the platform owners are not sub-prime as well. There's at least a couple of P2P platforms that I wouldn't loan a pencil to let alone invest my hard earned cash with. Doing my DD on Collateral it showed that they had an IP. I lent through COL on that basis as I did on SS and MT and ABL when they had IPs. What else do you suggest?Look at the other companies that the directors and senior managers have been involved with both currently and in the past. Look at who they have been in business with, and check how they handle(d) themsleves in those other companies. If in a past life they were fronting an estate agency (for example), were they accredited by the Estate Agent's trade body? Look at the companies house filings for all companies they have been associated with. Are the filings timely ? A well run buisness should be filing accounts no later than 6 months after year end to avoid credit rating knockbacks as the 9 month mark approaches. Do the accounts make sense ? Are the levels of creditors / debtors / assets in a range that feels appropriate ? Do all the loans that have been presented on the platform have the underlying security correctly documented at companies house and at the land registry ? Have any and all platform conflicts of interests associated with the loans written been openly declared ? Have all VR's and QS reports presented in support of the loans been written by suitably qualified individuals ? I could go on, and on. You should be doing all this with each borrower anyway, all bugs4me is saying is the same DD needs to be done on the platform. What you are looking to achieve is a mental picture of the risk that the platform (or borrower) is engaging in what some would consider unethical practises, or at the very least may be desensitised to the risk of unethical practises (by close association with those engaging in such practises) This is a general discourse not intended to implicate any individual or platform.
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tomtom
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Post by tomtom on Mar 5, 2018 12:24:35 GMT
I have tried to log on to web site using Firefox but have received saying that " site is not secure and is not allowing site to be axcessed " using Firefox.
Tomtom
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Post by winger on Mar 5, 2018 12:27:03 GMT
I have tried to log on to web site using Firefox but have received saying that " site is not secure and is not allowing site to be axcessed " using Firefox. Tomtom I got that too, so I went to the home page and found the message about server upgrade still.
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jontyab
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Post by jontyab on Mar 5, 2018 12:37:19 GMT
I have tried to log on to web site using Firefox but have received saying that " site is not secure and is not allowing site to be axcessed " using Firefox. Tomtom I'd mentioned this in one of the Administration threads last week - Their SSL cert expired last saturday. Not especially concerning whilst there clearly isn't anyone maintaining the site. I'm a little more irked that an appropriate placeholder hasn't been provided but can understand if this is all we get, the main server being brought down and us being served whatever placeholder remained and nobody was allowed to touch it. When there is some kind of change you'd expect a new certificate to come with it.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Mar 5, 2018 12:38:21 GMT
Doing my DD on Collateral it showed that they had an IP. I lent through COL on that basis as I did on SS and MT and ABL when they had IPs. What else do you suggest?Look at the other companies that the directors and senior managers have been involved with both currently and in the past. Look at who they have been in business with, and check how they handle(d) themsleves in those other companies. If in a past life they were fronting an estate agent (for example), were they accredited by the Estate Agent's trade body? Look at the companies house filings for all companies they have been associated with. Are the filings timely ? A well run buisness should be filing accounts no later than 6 months after year end to avoid credit rating knockbacks as the 9 month mark approaches. Do the accounts make sense ? Are the levels of creditors / debtors / assets in a range that feels appropriate ? Do all the loans that have been presented on the platform have the underlying security correctly documented at companies house and the land registry ? Have any and all platform conflicts of interests associated with the loans written been openly declared ? Have all VR's and QS reports presented in support of the loans been written by suitably qualified individuals ? I could go on, and on. You should be doing all this with each borrower anyway, all bugs4me is saying is the same DD needs to be done on the platform. What you are looking to achieve is a mental picture of the risk that the platform (or borrower) is engaging in what some would consider unethical practises, or at the very least may be desensitised to the risk of unethical practises. This is a general discourse not intended to implicate any indivual or platform. Thanks mrclondon
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 5, 2018 12:40:26 GMT
Look at the other companies that the directors and senior managers have been involved with both currently and in the past. Look at who they have been in business with, and check how they handle(d) themsleves in those other companies. If in a past life they were fronting an estate agent (for example), were they accredited by the Estate Agent's trade body? Look at the companies house filings for all companies they have been associated with. Are the filings timely ? A well run buisness should be filing accounts no later than 6 months after year end to avoid credit rating knockbacks as the 9 month mark approaches. Do the accounts make sense ? Are the levels of creditors / debtors / assets in a range that feels appropriate ? Do all the loans that have been presented on the platform have the underlying security correctly documented at companies house and the land registry ? Have any and all platform conflicts of interests associated with the loans written been openly declared ? Have all VR's and QS reports presented in support of the loans been written by suitably qualified individuals ? I could go on, and on. You should be doing all this with each borrower anyway, all bugs4me is saying is the same DD needs to be done on the platform. What you are looking to achieve is a mental picture of the risk that the platform (or borrower) is engaging in what some would consider unethical practises, or at the very least may be desensitised to the risk of unethical practises. This is a general discourse not intended to implicate any indivual or platform. - extremely well put. Is there anyway your post could be pinned somewhere?
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 5, 2018 13:39:09 GMT
RISK=REWARD always did always will. If you don't want rewards stick to a banks 1% APR ISA.
Don't call it losses call it a reduction in overall return. Unless you are extremely lase-fair with your investments then overall
you will make a profit greater than any bank is offering. FC works on this principal with more manure than a barnyard yet still returns a profit greater than the bank.
AGAIN for the umpteenth time there is no indication that Col (Which had no defaults). Has done anything other than mishandled a registration issue which may well be due to outside legal advice. Then there will be those who will want us to do DD on the lawyers,accountants etc. Check how much their kids have in their ISA's , whither they shop in M&S (de-facto fleecing us) or LIDL .
I take it these people are all atheists as the is no way on earth they would believe in God in any manifestation without their DD.
AGAIN RISK=REWARD
Relax enjoy the rewards I managed to retire 8 years early thanks to rewards no reason others can't do the same.
You need a chilled approach invest what you can save by being more diligent in day to day spending that way you are only using
"Free" money.
Enjoy lending feel good that you are helping others stay employed and earning a crust to feed their families and making a little for yourself.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Mar 5, 2018 13:40:27 GMT
ARROGANT, SCHEMING,.......
It is investors who have been stupid not to keep a much closer eye on all the chancers who run these outfits. And what exactly do you think that investors should have done? Go and sit in their office? I seem to remember that someone here reported a visit to their office
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Mar 5, 2018 14:23:49 GMT
I just can't accept that Gordon said in January 2017... 'Yes we're currently under interim permissions and our lawyers and compliance advisers are comfortable that we have the requisite permissions in our application for full FCA approval. '....On the 18th January 2018, Gordon states that 'Our FCA application is still ongoing...Then at the end of January 2018 changes are made to the information on the website as they continue to trade and then yesterday Collateral claim that '“The company was operating in the belief that it was authorized and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) under interim permission,” What is the reason you can't you accept it? We have no reason to believe the application was not ongoing on the 18th January 2018. We know as of the 29th January 2018 it was not still ongoing. This is consistent with a decision having been made by the FCA not to continue the application on or around that latter date. Whether that decision resulted in the change in IP or was the result of a lapse of IP remains to be seen. One possible explanation is that the FCA found something they didn't like and did not believe it could be fixed. If that's the case, we'll probably never find out exactly what it was. The events that occurred in February could be the desperate actions of a management team trying to save the business by brokering some sort of takeover, which ultimately fell through. But that's just one of many possible scenarios. I have tried to log on to web site using Firefox but have received saying that " site is not secure and is not allowing site to be axcessed " using Firefox. Tomtom Same thing happened to me using Safari. I was able to reach the site when I switched browser. I did manage to reach it using Firefox and Chrome.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Mar 5, 2018 14:53:05 GMT
And what exactly do you think that investors should have done? Go and sit in their office? As per my usual droning on about the subject, investors need to do their own DD on the platforms prior to carrying out DD on the loan offerings. It's no use hoping the FCA 'fit and proper' person test is adequate as IMO it's certainly not. I know doing DD can be time consuming but with many loans we're investing in the sub-prime market. Best to make sure the platform owners are not sub-prime as well. There's at least a couple of P2P platforms that I wouldn't loan a pencil to let alone invest my hard earned cash with. Is there anything wrong about posting up which platforms you wouldn't personally invest in and why? A kind of review I suppose. As long as you stick to facts, that surely wouldn't be libelous ? Will understand if you don't want to though. I have to say I am getting a bit more concerned (hopefully without reason!) about who is running these platforms. I don't understand why insurance against mal-practice isn't mandatory. I've seen quite a few people show up on this forum saying they have a shiny new platform. Those were some good detailed questions posed above. As a nation, are we really saying that ever T, D and H should need to conduct that level of DD every time they give any money to anyone that isn't a bank? Share dealing platforms spring to mind - who has done that level of DD on them? They could also cut lose and run but nobody is concerned. I have a feeling there is a reason for that that I still don't understand.
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dovap
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Post by dovap on Mar 5, 2018 15:03:15 GMT
RISK=REWARD always did always will. If you don't want rewards stick to a banks 1% APR ISA. Don't call it losses call it a reduction in overall return. Unless you are extremely lase-fair with your investments then overall you will make a profit greater than any bank is offering. FC works on this principal with more manure than a barnyard yet still returns a profit greater than the bank. AGAIN for the umpteenth time there is no indication that Col (Which had no defaults). Has done anything other than mishandled a registration issue which may well be due to outside legal advice. Then there will be those who will want us to do DD on the lawyers,accountants etc. Check how much their kids have in their ISA's , whither they shop in M&S (de-facto fleecing us) or LIDL . I take it these people are all atheists as the is no way on earth they would believe in God in any manifestation without their DD. AGAIN RISK=REWARD Relax enjoy the rewards I managed to retire 8 years early thanks to rewards no reason others can't do the same. You need a chilled approach invest what you can save by being more diligent in day to day spending that way you are only using "Free" money. Enjoy lending feel good that you are helping others stay employed and earning a crust to feed their families and making a little for yourself. what a load of tedious old sh*te You could top up your retirement funds with some freelance work for Lendy with that level of pony
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Mar 5, 2018 15:10:21 GMT
As per my usual droning on about the subject, investors need to do their own DD on the platforms prior to carrying out DD on the loan offerings. It's no use hoping the FCA 'fit and proper' person test is adequate as IMO it's certainly not. I know doing DD can be time consuming but with many loans we're investing in the sub-prime market. Best to make sure the platform owners are not sub-prime as well. There's at least a couple of P2P platforms that I wouldn't loan a pencil to let alone invest my hard earned cash with. Is there anything wrong about posting up which platforms you wouldn't personally invest in and why? A kind of review I suppose. As long as you stick to facts, that surely wouldn't be libelous ? Will understand if you don't want to though. I have to say I am getting a bit more concerned (hopefully without reason!) about who is running these platforms. I don't understand why insurance against mal-practice isn't mandatory. I've seen quite a few people show up on this forum saying they have a shiny new platform. Those were some good detailed questions posed above. As a nation, are we really saying that ever T, D and H should need to conduct that level of DD every time they give any money to anyone that isn't a bank? Share dealing platforms spring to mind - who has done that level of DD on them? They could also cut lose and run but nobody is concerned. I have a feeling there is a reason for that that I still don't understand. I could but I certainly wouldn't post anything in the public domain. Even dealing in pure facts there are far too many quick finger lawyers around chasing a quick buck or two. The earlier post by mrclondon is an excellent starting point. It may seem long winded but often, early on in carrying out DD, there are already red flags (in my head) so no need to proceed further. P2P platforms, in addition to offering loan opportunities also need investor funds. So it would be helpful (as an example only) to have director's that were committed to growing the platform without being distracted by holding possibly many other appointments - just an example. Investors have shown their commitment by handing over their cash so to expect the same commitment in return is not unreasonable IMO.
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