p2pmark
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Post by p2pmark on Mar 31, 2018 18:41:57 GMT
A question which seem obvious, so apologies if I've missed the answer. There has been talk in this thread of the administrators potentially needing to use lenders' funds to help with the running costs. Would this be legal given lenders' contracts are with the borrowers (AIUI)?
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Post by brightspark on Mar 31, 2018 19:06:41 GMT
Are the contracts valid bearing in mind that collateral was not what it purported to be i.e. regulated?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 31, 2018 19:19:12 GMT
Are the contracts valid bearing in mind that collateral was not what it purported to be i.e. regulated? That's what scares me. If a thug was caught lending money illegally door to door, was caught, prosecuted and sentenced would his "victims" need to repay what they "owe" ? What typically happens in those cases? There must have been dozens of them over the years?
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Post by dualinvestor on Mar 31, 2018 19:32:24 GMT
Are the contracts valid bearing in mind that collateral was not what it purported to be i.e. regulated? That's what scares me. If a thug was caught lending money illegally door to door, was caught, prosecuted and sentenced would his "victims" need to repay what they "owe" ? What typically happens in those cases? There must have been dozens of them over the years? They would be covered by the Consumer Credit Act or the rather quaintly named Usery Act although the FCA would be unlikely tocover your medical bills.
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mason
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Post by mason on Mar 31, 2018 19:44:09 GMT
Are the contracts valid bearing in mind that collateral was not what it purported to be i.e. regulated? That's what scares me. If a thug was caught lending money illegally door to door, was caught, prosecuted and sentenced would his "victims" need to repay what they "owe" ? What typically happens in those cases? There must have been dozens of them over the years? Hopefully everything is in order with the loan contracts themselves, but there is no way of knowing since they were never shared with lenders. Unlike illegally lending door to door, we have been led to believe agreements are between borrower and lender, so neither party to a loan contract engaged in any criminal activity.
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guff
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Post by guff on Mar 31, 2018 19:47:38 GMT
I suspect this leak of the 23 March report is nothing to do with RR. If they wanted support for their position, everyone would have received it directly from them, with a covering letter. Someone else is driving this. stub8535 probably knows. I don't think we will ever know who is driving this, if anyone, neither, probably does stub8535 but it probably someone close to RR, the Directors or a jilted buyer or a permutation thereof. <snip> At least he knows who sent him the report, which is one link in the chain closer. Has he revealed this information in DDC?
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p2pmark
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Post by p2pmark on Mar 31, 2018 19:50:12 GMT
And assuming the contracts are legal can the administrator use the capital in the contracts? If not the capital, what about the interest as that becomes due - are lenders creditors in that COL already has (some of) our interest sitting in their accounts, as it was paid upfront? dualinvestor, elliotn, mason? Anybody else? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I haven't seen answers to them. |
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mason
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Post by mason on Mar 31, 2018 19:51:02 GMT
I don't think we will ever know who is driving this, if anyone, neither, probably does stub8535 but it probably someone close to RR, the Directors or a jilted buyer or a permutation thereof. <snip> At least he knows who sent him the report, which is one link in the chain closer. Has he revealed this information in DDC? No, he doesn't appear to be willing to engage in any discussion about how he came by any of the information he's shared.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 31, 2018 19:51:03 GMT
That's what scares me. If a thug was caught lending money illegally door to door, was caught, prosecuted and sentenced would his "victims" need to repay what they "owe" ? What typically happens in those cases? There must have been dozens of them over the years? They would be covered by the Consumer Credit Act or the rather quaintly named Usery Act although the FCA would be unlikely tocover your medical bills. You mean the thug would be helped by the FCA to recover his losses? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would happen to all the money this guy has lent out?
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mason
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Post by mason on Mar 31, 2018 19:55:59 GMT
And assuming the contracts are legal can the administrator use the capital in the contracts? If not the capital, what about the interest as that becomes due - are lenders creditors in that COL already has (some of) our interest sitting in their accounts, as it was paid upfront? It's not a dumb question. I have doubts that interest or capital could be used to meet the costs of the administration while there remain business assets that could be used, but again, the loan contracts may contain clauses the Collateral Agent could use to make this possible under certain circumstances. As these are probably considered consumer contracts, we may have protections under Part 2 of the Consumer Rights Act (Unfair Terms)
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Post by dualinvestor on Mar 31, 2018 20:04:12 GMT
They would be covered by the Consumer Credit Act or the rather quaintly named Usery Act although the FCA would be unlikely tocover your medical bills. You mean the thug would be helped by the FCA to recover his losses? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would happen to all the money this guy has lent out? If he comes to the attention of the FCA and is shut down, which doesn't happen nearly as often as it should, it is purported by poverty charities that this type of loan shark operates in nearly every depived area, he can be prosecuted but if only for the financial offences (i.e. not involving violence against his debtors) and is not a serial offender it is unlikely he will suffer more than a modest fine. The loans the authorities know about will be null and void, but 1) they still have to be repaid but not the interest 2) it is extremely unlikely to affect more than a very small proportion of his business and even if he does it is likely he will be operating, possibly behind front men, within days. The Governor of the Bank of England said 18 months ago 95% of British household have less than £5,000, most P2P investors live in a comfortable middle class environment and either are ignorant of what happens in poorer areas or don't want to know.
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Post by easteregg on Mar 31, 2018 20:05:07 GMT
I take a few days away from P2P and there is a lot to catch up on!
Two points which have been made earlier, but I think are behind the reasoning why the FCA are looking to appoint different administrators. The FCA deemed that Collateral were operating an unregulated business, so if the administrators don’t have the necessary regulatory permission then they can’t operate the business either.
If the administrators were trying to access or repay funds that were in - or should have been in - a client account, but they don’t have the necessary regulatory permission then the FCA may want to step in.
I was concerned reading the report as it listed our funds with Collateral’s funds. There should be seperate as they do not belong to Collateral, unless they were not in a segregated client account.
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Post by dualinvestor on Mar 31, 2018 20:11:26 GMT
And assuming the contracts are legal can the administrator use the capital in the contracts? If not the capital, what about the interest as that becomes due - are lenders creditors in that COL already has (some of) our interest sitting in their accounts, as it was paid upfront? dualinvestor , elliotn , mason ? Anybody else? Sorry if these are dumb questions, but I haven't seen answers to them. Frankly Mark I don't think anyone has definitive answers to your questions, even the Administrator who seems to have confused things in his own statement of affairs when compared to the stautory report it accomapnies written to by himself. One would hope that client accounts and interest remain separate from the company's money but at this stage it is not possible to be certain of that fact.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 31, 2018 20:23:32 GMT
You mean the thug would be helped by the FCA to recover his losses? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would happen to all the money this guy has lent out? If he comes to the attention of the FCA and is shut down, which doesn't happen nearly as often as it should, it is purported by poverty charities that this type of loan shark operates in nearly every depived area, he can be prosecuted but if only for the financial offences (i.e. not involving violence against his debtors) and is not a serial offender it is unlikely he will suffer more than a modest fine. The loans the authorities know about will be null and void, but 1) they still have to be repaid but not the interest 2) it is extremely unlikely to affect more than a very small proportion of his business and even if he does it is likely he will be operating, possibly behind front men, within days. The Governor of the Bank of England said 18 months ago 95% of British household have less than £5,000, most P2P investors live in a comfortable middle class environment and either are ignorant of what happens in poorer areas or don't want to know. Thanks for the information although not sure I would agree most people don't want to know (as in "don't care") - I have more faith in folk both rich and poor. If you're right about the capital still needing repaying then that is of some comfort to us "rich" folk who want our money back from col. In the worst case, I don't see why we would be treated that much better than the loan shark given neither have permission to operate.
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mason
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Post by mason on Mar 31, 2018 20:28:23 GMT
In the worst case, I don't see why we would be treated that much better than the loan shark given neither have permission to operate. Do we need permission to engage in peer to peer lending?
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