star dust
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Post by star dust on Apr 1, 2018 19:58:02 GMT
Mod Hat On/ I’ve just removed a series of posts (14 in total) which were part of an escalating dispute and contained slurs and insinuations aimed (or by implication aimed) at fellow members. Amongst them was in my opinion some useful information – such a pity poster’s cannot confine themselves to facts and polite and constructive discussion. I shall unlock the thread, but any further attempt at continuing this or other disputes or casting aspersions at other forum members will result in more than missing posts. Thank you all for your co-operation.  |
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 2, 2018 6:45:49 GMT
In the interest of trying to preserve some of the valuable information discussed yesterday evening: References were made to Schedule B of the Insolvency Act 1986 ( www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/schedule/B1) Paragraph 47 states that "As soon as is reasonably practicable after appointment the administrator of a company shall by notice in the prescribed form require one or more relevant persons to provide the administrator with a statement of the affairs of the company", "relevant persons" being defined in one of the sub-paragraphs, but suffice it to say this person would have an intimate knowledge of the business. The above statement of affairs must "give the names and addresses of the company’s creditors". The terms and conditions we are bound by clearly outline Collateral (UK) Limited's liability to us for interest on loans we have part-funded between the date of our funding and draw-down. Anyone who placed a bid on a loan during February in which the loan did not draw down on the same day would automatically become a creditor of the company. Paragraph 49 states that "The administrator shall send a copy of the statement of his proposals ... (b) to every creditor of the company of whose claim and address he is aware". We know that those of us who are creditors by virtue of the interest obligation above have not been sent the report. Either an error or omission has been made in the above statement of affairs, or it was not obtained or taken into consideration at the time the list of creditors was enumerated (in fact the list of creditors was empty at the time of the report of 23rd March). Further, previous discussion that was not removed highlights the ca. £1.6m of money used to part-fund or fully fund pre-drawn down loans. The report of 23rd March did not account for these funds. The Estimated Statement of Affairs did not include the balance of the clients account, but this was stated elsewhere in the report to be £395,404. The Statement of Affairs stated the Group held “Cash at Bank” of £376,113. Neither of these balances can account for the money collected from investors that had (presumably) not been advanced to the borrower. Given the obligation of the administrator to obtain a statement of affairs of the company from a relevant person, the likelihood of this being an oversight seems very much diminished, although it is possible that the correct procedures have not been followed. Either way, it was enough for me to reconsider my position and I am probably going to make a claim as a creditor for capital and interest from the loan I part-funded, which has not drawn down. Another valuable point from yesterday's discussion (that I don't think survived) is that registering as a creditor now should not prejudice your right to be treated differently later should new facts come to light. |
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macro
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Post by macro on Apr 2, 2018 7:00:52 GMT
In the interest of trying to preserve some of the valuable information discussed yesterday evening: References were made to Schedule B of the Insolvency Act 1986 ( www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/45/schedule/B1) Paragraph 47 states that "As soon as is reasonably practicable after appointment the administrator of a company shall by notice in the prescribed form require one or more relevant persons to provide the administrator with a statement of the affairs of the company", "relevant persons" being defined in one of the sub-paragraphs, but suffice it to say this person would have an intimate knowledge of the business. The above statement of affairs must "give the names and addresses of the company’s creditors". The terms and conditions we are bound by clearly outline Collateral (UK) Limited's liability to us for interest on loans we have part-funded between the date of our funding and draw-down. Anyone who placed a bid on a loan during February in which the loan did not draw down on the same day would automatically become a creditor of the company.Paragraph 49 states that "The administrator shall send a copy of the statement of his proposals ... (b) to every creditor of the company of whose claim and address he is aware". We know that those of us who are creditors by virtue of the interest obligation above have not been sent the report. Either an error or omission has been made in the above statement of affairs, or it was not obtained or taken into consideration at the time the list of creditors was enumerated (in fact the list of creditors was empty at the time of the report of 23rd March). Further, previous discussion that was not removed highlights the ca. £1.6m of money used to part-fund or fully fund pre-drawn down loans. The report of 23rd March did not account for these funds. The Estimated Statement of Affairs did not include the balance of the clients account, but this was stated elsewhere in the report to be £395,404. The Statement of Affairs stated the Group held “Cash at Bank” of £376,113. Neither of these balances can account for the money collected from investors that had (presumably) not been advanced to the borrower. Given the obligation of the administrator to obtain a statement of affairs of the company from a relevant person, the likelihood of this being an oversight seems very much diminished, although it is possible that the correct procedures have not been followed. Either way, it was enough for me to reconsider my position and I am probably going to make a claim as a creditor for capital and interest from the loan I part-funded, which has not drawn down. Another valuable point from yesterday's discussion (that I don't think survived) is that registering as a creditor now should not prejudice your right to be treated differently later should new facts come to light. Thanks for this, Mason. Does it seem necessary to refer to any loans made prior to February 1st? I understand that the apparent discrepancy in accounts is only with respect to loans made during February, is that correct? Are you intending to use the form AM01 which was attached to email sent by RR last month? Again, I understand that this should be completed and returned to the current administrator?
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 2, 2018 7:09:45 GMT
Thanks for this, Mason. Does it seem necessary to refer to any loans made prior to February 1st? I understand that the apparent discrepancy in accounts is only with respect to loans made during February, is that correct? Are you intending to use the form AM01 which was attached to email sent by RR last month? Again, I understand that this should be completed and returned to the current administrator? listed the affected loans in this post. Some of them might have been put up on the platform prior to 1st Feb. I'll be completing the form AM01 and returning to RR, along with a covering note explaining why I am claiming and inviting RR to share with me any information that would make me reconsider my position.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Apr 2, 2018 7:37:18 GMT
The above statement of affairs must "give the names and addresses of the company’s creditors". The terms and conditions we are bound by clearly outline Collateral (UK) Limited's liability to us for interest on loans we have part-funded between the date of our funding and draw-down. Anyone who placed a bid on a loan during February in which the loan did not draw down on the same day would automatically become a creditor of the company. Has anyone managed to save a copy of the new terms and conditions from 1st February, the ones we weren't informed about? The google cache link I saved no longer appears to work, it now takes me to the holding page of the website on 24th March. I am curious to know if any attempt was made to change the terms related to the liability to us for interest on loans not yet drawn down.
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radar
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Post by radar on Apr 2, 2018 7:49:53 GMT
Since when has administrators been informing potential creditors by email. I would have expected that this would have to be done by official posted correspondence
encompassing all clients and suppliers registered with the said company.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 2, 2018 8:06:54 GMT
Since when has administrators been informing potential creditors by email. I would have expected that this would have to be done by official posted correspondence encompassing all clients and suppliers registered with the said company. Given that this is an internet company whose primary (indeed, sole) communication with customers was via email, I can't see a huge problem with continuing to use email as the primary method of communcation.
I do wish we could have at least read-only access to our portfolios, though... I haven't got a clue how much cash or how much non-drawn-down I had in my account. I know the total balance as of the previous start-of-month, and the transfer in/out history, but I didn't track more than that. Can't imagine I'm somehow unique - or even unrepresentative - in that. In fact, I'd guess that many don't even have that much detail.
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 2, 2018 8:12:20 GMT
I do wish we could have at least read-only access to our portfolios, though... I haven't got a clue how much cash or how much non-drawn-down I had in my account. I know the total balance as of the previous start-of-month, and the transfer in/out history, but I didn't track more than that. Can't imagine I'm somehow unique - or even unrepresentative - in that. In fact, I'd guess that many don't even have that much detail. An email was sent for each loan-part bought. If you still have those you should be able to piece together your holdings in the non-drawn down loans at least.
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Post by dualinvestor on Apr 2, 2018 8:12:31 GMT
A couple of additional matters to add to @mason 's good summary, especially as it was from memory and there was a lot of technical information. 1 Although you may be relying on a leaked copy of the report it is part of the public record as it should have been filed at Companies House. 2 You have until Friday (6th April) to register your request for a meeting of creditors to consider the Administrators proposals. The report, clearly erroneously, said there are no secured, preferential or unsecured creditors so 10% of the investors, by value, who are owed interest in the undrawn loans is sufficient. radar it has long been possible for official communications to be sent by email there is a specific section of the Companies Act 2006 covering it, but it is irrelevent in this case because he has not sent it to anyone as far as I am aware.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 2, 2018 8:19:23 GMT
I do wish we could have at least read-only access to our portfolios, though... I haven't got a clue how much cash or how much non-drawn-down I had in my account. I know the total balance as of the previous start-of-month, and the transfer in/out history, but I didn't track more than that. Can't imagine I'm somehow unique - or even unrepresentative - in that. In fact, I'd guess that many don't even have that much detail. An email was sent for each loan-part bought. If you still have those you should be able to piece together your holdings in the non-drawn down loans at least. No, I don't keep every single email sent...
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11025
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Post by 11025 on Apr 2, 2018 8:21:37 GMT
I can't find if this has been touched on ,
but I am assuming that any loan parts we had on the secondary market should be treated as loans we still own ?
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 2, 2018 8:26:13 GMT
[Has anyone managed to save a copy of the new terms and conditions from 1st February, the ones we weren't informed about? The google cache link I saved no longer appears to work, it now takes me to the holding page of the website on 24th March. I am curious to know if any attempt was made to change the terms related to the liability to us for interest on loans not yet drawn down. TBH, I've more or less discounted the "new" T&Cs that we were not notified of, and which I've only ever seen in Google's cache. I may be misremembering, but I thought an analysis was done somewhere in this thread or another and I don't believe anything was changed other than that connected with regulation. Regardless, it is unlikely we would be bound by any changes to our detriment that we were not notified of. The part-funding emails still stated "You are now earning XX.XX% per annum on the above investment" and naturally having not seen the "new" terms on the website before it was taken down for "maintenance", if challenged my position would be I am unaware of any such change being lawfully made.
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radar
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Post by radar on Apr 2, 2018 8:27:10 GMT
Since when has administrators been informing potential creditors by email. I would have expected that this would have to be done by official posted correspondence encompassing all clients and suppliers registered with the said company. (Given that this is an internet company whose primary (indeed, sole) communication with customers was via email, I can't see a huge problem with continuing to use email as the primary method of communcation.)
I am refering to the Adminisrator and not the company.I have not received any correspondance from Adminstrator either by email or post. If I was not on this forum I would be completely unaware of any developments. Certain posters are referring to Form AM01 where is this form?
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mason
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Post by mason on Apr 2, 2018 8:28:55 GMT
An email was sent for each loan-part bought. If you still have those you should be able to piece together your holdings in the non-drawn down loans at least. No, I don't keep every single email sent... That's a shame, one of the first things I did after receiving news of the administrator was to search my trash folder and pull out anything relevant. It might be too late for you by now, but worth checking as the emails might not be permanently deleted.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 2, 2018 8:30:35 GMT
(Given that this is an internet company whose primary (indeed, sole) communication with customers was via email, I can't see a huge problem with continuing to use email as the primary method of communcation.) I am refering to the Adminisrator and not the company. The administrator on behalf of the company, yes. I don't think there's been anything since the initial "Hey, guys, it's all gone titsup." message. I've not had anything more, at any rate.
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