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Post by jordanh96 on Mar 15, 2018 13:18:57 GMT
After reading the Financial Times article, "UK equity income discounts biggest since financial crisis", the question comes to mind; does this mean there is more money available for the p2p market?
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 15, 2018 13:28:02 GMT
After reading the Financial Times article, "UK equity income discounts biggest since financial crisis", the question comes to mind; does this mean there is more money available for the p2p market? No it means the opposite. Discounts are widening because people are worried about Brexit and a Socialist government. P2P loans are just as likely to be hit by these two possible events. People will be switching to foreign assets not to another UK asset class.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2018 14:31:46 GMT
After reading the Financial Times article, "UK equity income discounts biggest since financial crisis", the question comes to mind; does this mean there is more money available for the p2p market? No it means the opposite. Discounts are widening because people are worried about Brexit and a Socialist government. P2P loans are just as likely to be hit by these two possible events. People will be switching to foreign assets not to another UK asset class. bg bang on, Brexit, Socialism and Russia is moving money out of the UK.
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Post by jordanh96 on Mar 15, 2018 15:51:37 GMT
Thanks Bobo and bg. Perhaps I am ever the optimist and live in hope that investors will see the alternative finance market and tax reliefs etc in the UK as a good investment.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 16, 2018 10:16:28 GMT
Well, I'm currently doing my annual investments review - deciding where to shift my money to, how to use next year's ISAs, etc. And I have to say its the hardest one of these I've done: not because of my personal circumstances, but because of the uncertainty and threats out there.
Some may fear a socialist government: actually, that's near the bottom of the my list. Far worse is the fear of an unstable government that is unable to take any action at all, in the midst of a botched brexit (was there ever going to be any other kind?), looming trade wars and international instability. Inflation? Currency effects?
Just where, exactly, are we supposed to stash our cash? I'm not greedy: protecting my capital (in real terms) is all I seek.
However, back to the question - and the focus of this forum. Is P2P the place to keep your money safe in a storm? IMHO the answer to that one is a definite "no". That's not to say I will pull out completely, as I think P2P has a place in a diversified portfolio, having perhaps slightly different risk factors from the alternatives. But if the brown stuff hits the fan, then consumers, SMEs and property developers are all likely to be badly hit and there will be losses. 70% LTV on secured property doesn't look so smart when property values are falling and there is a half-finished building on the site that has been abandoned by a bankrupt borrower!
Holding cash may mean a guaranteed loss (in real terms) of 1-2% pa, but there are times when that's the best on offer!
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Mar 16, 2018 10:45:34 GMT
Socialist governments have been known to seize bank accounts of rich folk, so they can “fairly” spread it around.
My plan is to ignore the noise and increase my equity investments in a global tracker fund.
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Post by samford71 on Mar 16, 2018 11:08:51 GMT
UK investors tend toward being somewhat income obsessed and "carry monkeys" rather than focussing on the growth or value of the underlying companies and looking at total returns. Hence the popularity of HYP strategies, equity income funds and certain ITs. Many UK companies know this and as a result keep paying out dividends that simply are not justified by their free cashflow. The end result after a decade or so is that FTSE dividend cover ratios are starting to look pretty weak so the stocks underperform.
For example if you take the FTSE350 LIX (low yield) and FTSE350 HIX (high yield), over the past 15 years or so, you'll find that in capital terms the FTSE350 LIX has outperformed by around more than 4%/annum compared to a current yield difference of around 2.5%. So that's around 1.5%/annum underperformance by the FTSE350 HIX.
Essentially, I see high dividend stocks as often sub-optimal as an investment strategy. It's generally far more effective to own a stock which pays no dividend but where they can reinvest 100% of the free cashflow back into the business because this is being reinvested at book value. To generate income you then simply sell a proportion of the portfolio at a multiple of book value. Obviously some companies struggle to find anything to invest in to generate higher net worth for the company and perhaps dividends are then the best policy. But why would I want to own that sort of company unless there are some big barriers to entry.
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Post by jordanh96 on Mar 16, 2018 12:02:48 GMT
Ceejay I agree if you’re investing in one property P2P and valuations decrease below 70% you have a problem. Saying that; the lender should have first charge and repossess the property straight away or put it to auction, so you should recover some of your money. You should always diversify your investments and choose a company that splits your investments amongst multiple borrowers or find a variety of P2P lenders to spread your risk which you can find on Business Agent.
It’s also good to check out their lending policies and loan books to see if they are doing 65% LTV and what type of default rates they have, again we have been doing this as best we can at Business Agent but it’s hard to keep on top of it.
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 16, 2018 12:28:35 GMT
Ceejay I agree if you’re investing in one property P2P and valuations decrease below 70% you have a problem. Saying that; the lender should have first charge and repossess the property straight away or put it to auction, so you should recover some of your money. You should always diversify your investments and choose a company that splits your investments amongst multiple borrowers or find a variety of P2P lenders to spread your risk which you can find on Business Agent. It’s also good to check out their lending policies and loan books to see if they are doing 65% LTV and what type of default rates they have, again we have been doing this as best we can at Business Agent but it’s hard to keep on top of it. Well, that's a brave but ultimately unsuccessful attempt at blowing your own horn, there, IMHO! Yes I do know about diversifying, thank you. The point was - and is - that P2P is far from being a safe place in a storm, and therefore (to answer your opening question) I don't think that troubles in the equity markets are going to lead to much of an influx into P2P. Or, at least, they shouldn't.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Mar 16, 2018 12:57:24 GMT
...a socialist government: actually, that's near the bottom of the my list. ... protecting my capital (in real terms) is all I seek. Good luck with the latter if John McDonnell implements the 20% wealth tax which he has mentioned in the past!
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Mar 16, 2018 13:33:28 GMT
...a socialist government: actually, that's near the bottom of the my list. ... protecting my capital (in real terms) is all I seek. Good luck with the latter if John McDonnell implements the 20% wealth tax which he has mentioned in the past! there will be anarchy before that
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2018 14:50:17 GMT
More to the point most of the capital will have left the country before the votes are counted ;-)
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Mar 16, 2018 17:17:59 GMT
More to the point most of the capital will have left the country before the votes are counted ;-) Simple. Ban withdrawals and transfers and then confiscate
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