ptr120
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Post by ptr120 on Apr 6, 2018 8:46:55 GMT
I've just done a quick calculation of my total defaults vs total interest across all platforms which confirms that this hasn't been a good year for me in P2P due to some large defaults on Moneything, with no recoveries to date. On that platform alone, my losses are more than three time greater than my profit. Even when other platforms are taken in to account I'm still not in the black. I'm sure that MT will have some recoveries in this new tax year, but as I'll likely move in to a higher tax bracket this year, it won't be great for me.
I was wondering, how have others fared overall?
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 6, 2018 8:52:15 GMT
I've just done a quick calculation of my total defaults vs total interest across all platforms which confirms that this hasn't been a good year for me in P2P due to some large defaults on Moneything, with no recoveries to date. On that platform alone, my losses are more than three time greater than my profit. Even when other platforms are taken in to account I'm still not in the black. I'm sure that MT will have some recoveries in this new tax year, but as I'll likely move in to a higher tax bracket this year, it won't be great for me. I was wondering, how have others fared overall? Total defaults = defaulted amount - recovered amount If you are assuming zero recovered it will make your returns look much worse. Even HMRC doesn’t allow that kind of accounting.
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 6, 2018 9:23:59 GMT
I am certainly not as organised as you on the tax front and tend to work out my tax position in December. I would say my return for the year has across RS, AC and Zopa has been somewhere in the region of 5% - earning a reasonable 4 figure sum. I have probably averaged about 5% over the last 5 years. I have always stayed away from the high return/risk platforms.
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aj
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Post by aj on Apr 6, 2018 10:27:31 GMT
Last tax year was my first in P2P, mainly in the higher risk end of the pool. Applying the government guidance for defaults* I calculate last tax year earned me +9% through P2P. The guidance is very woolly when it says "Tax relief applies when there is no reasonable prospect of the peer to peer loan being repaid". Who makes that judgement? There are loans I have written off any chance of recovery on (The only remaining security is a personal guarantee ) that the platforms are still chasing. *This method does push losses into future tax years. Realistically I expect a lower % than this over the long term.
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Post by elephantrosie on Apr 6, 2018 10:43:59 GMT
I have no idea how to calculate this therefore cannot answer.
When do we agree that a loan has no prospect of being paid when on default? Is there a cut off period after it is labelled default?
How about loans on collateral?
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 6, 2018 10:49:03 GMT
I have no idea how to calculate this therefore cannot answer. When do we agree that a loan has no prospect of being paid when on default? Is there a cut off period after it is labelled default? How about loans on collateral? Loans that are classed as defaulted by the platform. Clarification : They should be in recovery for a valid claim (as advised by ilmoro ).Collateral wasn't authorised, no tax relief could be claimed. Loans haven't defaulted though so this is academic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2018 10:59:08 GMT
Well from a tax point I made doodly-squat, £0, nada. Thanks to MT's conservative accounting principles.
What this means for 2018/19 is I may drift into the higher tax bracket if MT pull the rabbit out of the hat as I expect.
Strategy to move out of FS property has worked well. Defaults are down and I made a small income
Col, I've just assumed no income and no default figures at this time.
From a cash flow basis I'm holding onto 9.4% which is roughly as usual with capital (plus an 3% inflation figure) holding steady (+-3%) throughout the year.
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aj
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Post by aj on Apr 6, 2018 11:27:49 GMT
I have no idea how to calculate this therefore cannot answer. When do we agree that a loan has no prospect of being paid when on default? Is there a cut off period after it is labelled default? How about loans on collateral? Loans that are classed as defaulted by the platform. Collateral wasn't authorised, no tax relief could be claimed. Loans haven't defaulted though so this is academic. I have loans in default that are backed by a first charge on a property. I expect to get a large % recovery on them, i'm not sure the taxman would agree on 'No reasonable prospect of repayment'?EDIT: Reading further, I come across the following: "Whether a loan has become irrecoverable should be judged on a case by case basis, however as the loan will be managed by a platform, the platform would usually be in a position to determine when a loan has become irrecoverable. The platform would then inform the lender that the loan had become irrecoverable." I have not yet had any platform tell me that a loan has become 'irrecoverable'. However " The lender may still determine that the loan has become irrecoverable. However it will be the responsibility of the lender to show that there is no reasonable prospect of the recovery of the loan" and "When loans are made against security, a loan may be treated as becoming irrecoverable as if the security did not exist."So should I treat anything in default as 'irrecoverable'?
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 6, 2018 12:11:51 GMT
Loans that are classed as defaulted by the platform. Collateral wasn't authorised, no tax relief could be claimed. Loans haven't defaulted though so this is academic. I have loans in default that are backed by a first charge on a property. I expect to get a large % recovery on them, i'm not sure the taxman would agree on 'No reasonable prospect of repayment'?EDIT: Reading further, I come across the following: "Whether a loan has become irrecoverable should be judged on a case by case basis, however as the loan will be managed by a platform, the platform would usually be in a position to determine when a loan has become irrecoverable. The platform would then inform the lender that the loan had become irrecoverable." I have not yet had any platform tell me that a loan has become 'irrecoverable'. However " The lender may still determine that the loan has become irrecoverable. However it will be the responsibility of the lender to show that there is no reasonable prospect of the recovery of the loan" and "When loans are made against security, a loan may be treated as becoming irrecoverable as if the security did not exist."So should I treat anything in default as 'irrecoverable'? The advice is :-
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pom
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Post by pom on Apr 6, 2018 12:29:11 GMT
I'm up. The MT loans will be handy from a tax bill perspective but personally I'm not going to worry about them until they crystallise (and probably would have waited for actual crystallised losses before claiming tax relief if MT hadn't counted them on the statement). Anyway whatever happens I'll remain in the black both for tax purposes and in reality as each of these loans is a lot less than 1% of my p2p pot. Took a lot of patience to get "fully" invested but results in a far more que sera sera attitude towards defaults.
As for collateral I'll worry about it later. If we end up with losses there we can't claim against income due to their lack of authorisation, perhaps they can be claimed as capital losses instead
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 6, 2018 12:37:19 GMT
As for collateral I'll worry about it later. If we end up with losses there we can't claim against income due to their lack of authorisation, perhaps they can be claimed as capital losses instead If they happen to default after an authorised platform has bought the loan book you could claim.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 6, 2018 13:26:44 GMT
I have no idea how to calculate this therefore cannot answer. When do we agree that a loan has no prospect of being paid when on default? Is there a cut off period after it is labelled default? How about loans on collateral? Loans that are classed as defaulted by the platform. Collateral wasn't authorised, no tax relief could be claimed. Loans haven't defaulted though so this is academic. No, platforms may classify loans as in default but that doesn't mean loss relief can be claimed. They have to be in formal recovery. Lots of loans on AC classed as in default, incl one for about 2 years, but none are classified as in recovery. HMRC definition (as quoted above) is fairly clear ISTM
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 6, 2018 13:33:30 GMT
Loans that are classed as defaulted by the platform. Collateral wasn't authorised, no tax relief could be claimed. Loans haven't defaulted though so this is academic. No, platforms may classify loans as in default but that doesn't mean loss relief can be claimed. They have to be in formal recovery. Lots of loans on AC classed as in default, incl one for about 2 years, but none are classified as in recovery. HMRC definition (as quoted above) is fairly clear ISTM I'm not a lender on AC. Why would you default a loan if not to recover it?
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Apr 6, 2018 13:40:28 GMT
Having had "disputes" with HMRC previously, including having to restate previous years' returns I now replicate whatever the platforms' tax report says (providing I can reconcile it). Given that my tax band is likely to remain stable, I feel it really is the simplest and safest thing to do.
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 6, 2018 13:41:57 GMT
No, platforms may classify loans as in default but that doesn't mean loss relief can be claimed. They have to be in formal recovery. Lots of loans on AC classed as in default, incl one for about 2 years, but none are classified as in recovery. HMRC definition (as quoted above) is fairly clear ISTM I'm not a lender on AC. Why would you default a loan if not to recover it? A default merely means that the loan is in breach of its terms, it doesn't mean that formal action has to be taken to recovery the loan. If the platform (& in AC cases often the lenders) see that the loan is still viable then it can be allowed to continue, often with a default rate applying.
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