dc848
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Post by dc848 on Apr 12, 2018 12:16:14 GMT
I'm starting to notice a number of loans which have overdue payments which are over 10 days late, and whilst monitoring these, I am starting to see payments made by borrowers which are falling short of their obligation - and these dont seem to be noticed by AC until queried by investors.
Could this lapse in monitoring be down to the Easter break? Or new AC staff still getting to grips with the job? Or are we (well some of us, at least) spotting early signs of loans in trouble?
I know AC give 7 days grace. I give AC a further 3 days grace, then Im looking to get out of the loan, because Im a Nervous Nelly.
I think AC need to up their game on monitoring and communication to investors.
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clay
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Post by clay on Apr 12, 2018 13:03:29 GMT
It's one thing for borrowers to be falling short of their obligations, but more often than not I find it's actually AC who are failing to pay interest on time. When cash is withheld at drawdown to pay future interest payments, there's just no excuse for the payments to have any delay, let alone 10+ days.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 12, 2018 13:23:41 GMT
I am personally more concerned about the large suspended loans totaling a few million (especially those which are covered by the Green Energy Accounts which could result in either a big payout from the provision fund or people losing a substantial % of their investment if the recovery rate is low). I am keeping a very close eye on how the recovery of these loans proceeds and will act accordingly.
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Post by notaclue on Apr 12, 2018 13:24:18 GMT
I'm losing confidence in them and I think there is going to be a loss of liquidity in the near future, I have reduced my money with them by 70%.
I know there are peaks and troughs, but I don't want to be in a trough!
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Apr 12, 2018 13:37:48 GMT
I'm losing confidence in them and I think there is going to be a loss of liquidity in the near future, I have reduced my money with them by 70%. I know there are peaks and troughs, but I don't want to be in a trough! I personally think they are one of the better P2P platforms out there and I have recently increased my holding. The key thing for me is not if the borrower defaults but if AC can make a reasonable recovery of the principal lent
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Post by notaclue on Apr 12, 2018 15:13:13 GMT
I'm losing confidence in them and I think there is going to be a loss of liquidity in the near future, I have reduced my money with them by 70%. I know there are peaks and troughs, but I don't want to be in a trough! I personally think they are one of the better P2P platforms out there and I have recently increased my holding. The key thing for me is not if the borrower defaults but if AC can make a reasonable recovery of the principal lent I agree and to put my comment into perspective they still are by far my biggest holding.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Apr 12, 2018 15:30:44 GMT
angrysaveruk That is our position too. We are categorically an alternative (to high street banks) lender and taking an increased default risk is absolutely how we generate lender coupons of around 8% gross and borrower rates of c 9% versus high street banks lending at c 3-4%. We instead focus on minimising losses if a default occurs and we have a robust but considered recovery process. High street banks are here for the ‘foundation’ capital for the country’s SME businesses but have pulled out around £35bn in just the last few years and really moved away from funding higher risk (of default) lending which unfortunately where many of the entrepreneurial and growth / employment generating businesses are. Alternative finance is the ‘growth’ capital that supports GDP growth and it has more noise than simplistic lending behind the 1% savings accounts at banks. We employ a growing team of highly experienced credit professionals and independent AltFiData.com market data analysis shows our net of losses returns of c25% cumulative over the last 3 years which is clearly attractive to many people. We now focus solely on property security backed loans and have also been tightening our defaulted loan status triggers which will absolutely mean more loans have a defaulted status than may have had before (and certainly more aggressively than many other platforms) but also this may mean some come back to normal trading from a default status if the borrowers rectify matters (which is not common elsewhere). The yield that we generate for investors has all of this factored in and if you aren’t comfortable with defaults and our recovery process and skill then perhaps p2p isn’t for you or one of the simpler access accounts may be preferable. Nonetheless we believe that P2P has a transparency and return that is well worth considering as part of a balanced portfolio and we will continue to support retail investors to the level of their demand before introducing institutional capital. I hope this helps and thank you for your support for what is now coming to five years of successful trading.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 12, 2018 16:04:47 GMT
It's one thing for borrowers to be falling short of their obligations, but more often than not I find it's actually AC who are failing to pay interest on time. When cash is withheld at drawdown to pay future interest payments, there's just no excuse for the payments to have any delay, let alone 10+ days. stuartYour reply to angrysaver just about describes the position of AC in the lending hierarchy. Could you address the point clay raises (and so do others occasionally) and explain how it is that AC can be retaining interest payments yet still delay paying those instalments to lenders (sometimes for 10+ days, he says)? These should be programmed from lender accounts to whichever interest holding accounts are used, at least three days in advance, so they are paid on time, not later when AC feels like it.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Apr 12, 2018 16:50:30 GMT
Ok, having asked the question regarding late payments we do have a human factor in this at present and it has led to some interest payment delays of a few days in some cases in the recent couple of weeks for which we apologise - Easter hasn’t helped plus some other matters to address. We have approaching 100 staff now and some new hires are in the finance team that manages this aspect - however some don’t arrive till a couple of weeks’ time. Expect much faster service then and also more automation on payments of interest shortly also.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 12, 2018 17:47:24 GMT
... if you aren’t comfortable with defaults and our recovery process and skill then perhaps p2p isn’t for you or one of the simpler access accounts may be preferable. Nonetheless we believe that P2P has a transparency ... I've been in P2P for years (e.g. FC since near the beginning) and well used to defaults (almost £9K in other platforms this year), yet AC is the one that worries me the most and where I don't see much transparency. Specifically due to loan 277. Huge concentration (20%+) of my GBBA1 portfolio even when it was active (much greater percentage now GBBA1 is running down), meaning the handling of the default/recovery will be central to how much I invest in AC going forward. Defaults are covered by section 13 Defaults of your Ts&Cs, which states that AC will "..put together a suitably qualified default management team..". Yet what we saw with loan 227 - whilst being in default - was the borrower being allowed to dictate the terms of the recent vote. AC staff, on the Q&A, stating "It is the responsibility of the borrower to submit their proposal as they deem appropriate, and not Assetz Capital", which imo is way too close to "not our problem". That's not transparency in my book, that's failing to engage. AC have yet to demonstrate to me that they're driving the default/recovery process on this loan. I would suggest rather than brushing aside lenders concerns, implying it's us that have the problems, you listen to the concerns and work to address them. Everybody wants AC to succeed, but AC have a way to go imo.
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clay
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Post by clay on Apr 12, 2018 18:40:19 GMT
FWIW, I started a thread about the delays to withheld interest payments back in September 2017. 7 months later, no noticeable change. Someone else may post about it again in another 7 months, but hopefully my sell-out will have finished by then.
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Post by notaclue on Apr 12, 2018 18:44:58 GMT
We now focus solely on property security backed loans . I can see why Assetz have moved to this position, in light of a few recent updates on a few non property secured loans. I wish I had known for instance that when a contractor goes bust with secured assets on another developers site there is seemingly little chance of getting them back or for that matter expensive machinery that can cost thousands to move making the asset worthless.
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Post by davee39 on Apr 13, 2018 8:08:01 GMT
Regarding 227.
Option B was to ask the Borrower for an alternative proposal. I took the initial offer to be a negotiating position and did not expect it to be taken seriously, neither did I expect another 12.5% interest to be accrued. What I did expect was that lenders would reject the proposal and something a little more rewarding to be offered. The result therefore came as a surprise, and I doubt it will be repeated in 6 months time.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 13, 2018 8:28:12 GMT
Regarding 227. Option B was to ask the Borrower for an alternative proposal. I took the initial offer to be a negotiating position and did not expect it to be taken seriously, neither did I expect another 12.5% interest to be accrued. What I did expect was that lenders would reject the proposal and something a little more rewarding to be offered. The result therefore came as a surprise, and I doubt it will be repeated in 6 months time. It was an interesting result. I wonder if it was a few big hitters that skewed the result or more random than that. Do institutional investors for example get to vote on the options? Particularly as this cohort may well grow in size in the future based on comments from AC. And what about lenders in the qaa and 30daa? I am sure they do, albeit the impact on them is very different at least in the short term. I wonder if there are some un intended consequences of the different groups of lenders voting in particular ways or just a random distribution of votes.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Apr 13, 2018 8:37:25 GMT
Regarding 227. Option B was to ask the Borrower for an alternative proposal. I took the initial offer to be a negotiating position and did not expect it to be taken seriously, neither did I expect another 12.5% interest to be accrued. What I did expect was that lenders would reject the proposal and something a little more rewarding to be offered. The result therefore came as a surprise, and I doubt it will be repeated in 6 months time. It was an interesting result. I wonder if it was a few big hitters that skewed the result or more random than that. Do institutional investors for example get to vote on the options? Particularly as this cohort may well grow in size in the future based on comments from AC. And what about lenders in the qaa and 30daa? I am sure they do, albeit the impact on them is very different at least in the short term. I wonder if there are some un intended consequences of the different groups of lenders voting in particular ways or just a random distribution of votes. I may be wrong but I thought MLIA investors are the only ones that vote. The Provision funded accounts (QAA/PSA/GBBA etc) vote lies in AC hands so whatever AC decides will always win (unless MLIA holdings are greater than total non MLIA holdings - and most MLIA holders probably dont vote anyway)?
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