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Post by charlata on Apr 24, 2018 18:37:47 GMT
I'm a little surprised to see talk of the forum maybe closing one day. If the day were to arrive that the current team wanted to stop, I'd hope they'd first offer the site to a new set of moderators. This isn't a resource that should be lost. Admin , who actually owns P2Pindependentforum? Is it AC?
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 24, 2018 19:50:17 GMT
I'm a little surprised to see talk of the forum maybe closing one day. If the day were to arrive that the current team wanted to stop, I'd hope they'd first offer the site to a new set of moderators. This isn't a resource that should be lost. Admin , who actually owns P2Pindependentforum? Is it AC? No,funded by donation so I suppose the community. p2pindependentforum.com/post/41844/thread
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Apr 24, 2018 21:11:13 GMT
I'm a little surprised to see talk of the forum maybe closing one day. If the day were to arrive that the current team wanted to stop, I'd hope they'd first offer the site to a new set of moderators. This isn't a resource that should be lost. Admin , who actually owns P2Pindependentforum? Is it AC? No,funded by donation so I suppose the community. p2pindependentforum.com/post/41844/threadSo running costs circa £20 a year? Or £200 well invested as a one off fund? Not sure a community can actually own anything, well not until we evolve into truly spiritual being unencumbered by physical form.
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GeorgeT
Member of DD Central
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Post by GeorgeT on Apr 24, 2018 23:14:43 GMT
I agree that paying mods is probably a bad idea, but what about charging for a user's first post? A charge of £5-£10 might be about right. This would:- a) cut spam down to almost zero, b) encourage new members to search to see if their question has already been asked (and answered), c) to post in the correct place, and d) encourage new members to read some of the rules before posting. This might help with other problems such as people creating multiple accounts. Money could be used to support the site, given to charity, used to buy awards, to pay for legal advice.... The only sensible way to fund a forum is to put up advertising slots which you sell through advertising websites and people bid for ads on the site and you would get lots of bids from financial P2P people on a site like this and given the traffic that comes through this site it could easily net a few hundred a month. However as I see it the problem is that the forum is hosted on a free proboards platform rather than being totally independently hosted. My forum was using free PHPBB software and hosted on my own server and obviously there is a cost to that but the advertising I got in from the various banner ad slots I inserted between posts and at the top and bottom meant that it paid for itself 10 times over. I have no idea who the banned members were and I have not seen this so-called new forum where they hang out and to be quite honest and with all due respect to the person's involved I am not interested. Besides I am quite sure it is not beyond the wit of the said person's to rejoin the forum using different email addresses and IP addresses etc. Storm in a teacup. However I reiterate my support for the administrators and moderators who put in hours of unpaid time and get very little in the way of thanks. Of course they are human and may not get everything right but that doesn't mean that people who benefit from a free website like this should feel able to attack them and criticise them. They should be grateful for the fact that there are people out there who are so selfless that they are prepared to give up their time to benefit others in this way. As regards the argument that decisions should be transparent and open in accordance with normal Justice laws I would just say that this is a free to use internet forum and is not a court of law and that analogy does not apply. Membership and usage of this forum is a privilege and not a right and it is a privilege that can be withdrawn at any time by any administrator should they see fit, whether their decision is right or wrong. That's life. And no, don't worry, I am not touting for a role on the forum staff. Having run an internet forum in the past it is not an undertaking I would get involved with again and that is why I respect those who do. Do not criticize somebody unless you have walked in their shoes.
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sl75
Posts: 2,092
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Post by sl75 on Apr 25, 2018 8:26:15 GMT
The only sensible way to fund a forum is to put up advertising slots which you sell through advertising websites and people bid for ads on the site and ... I'm a little confused. Various people are discussing advertising and other funding sources as though it is a proposal for the future. There have already been banner ads for as long as I can remember, together with a link saying "Click here to remove banner ads from this forum." which offers to do so for a payment of $8. I'd guess that regulars tend to mentally filter them out - perhaps even to the extent they've forgotten they exist when discussing them! I understand that this pays for all the software, hosting services and maintenance provided by ProBoards. If there is anyone else who puts at least as much work into keeping the forum running as ProBoards themselves, and that person thinks they deserve a slice of the revenue, I'd guess that would be up to that person to negotiate with ProBoards. However, I doubt the "total pie" is enough to be worth much negotiation over slicing it up.
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dandy
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Post by dandy on Apr 25, 2018 8:45:48 GMT
dandy - it's still a conflict of interest as we're effectively endorsing forum policy, and mods can still be accused of being influenced by platforms so that they continue to pay to participate. The idea of referrer links is likely a better solution, at least in the short term, and something that would just plumb straight into our existing affiliate program. chris I think that referrer links are more likely to create conflicts of interest than a fixed annual fee. Simply because platforms can then increase/decrease what they pay per referral. Platform A pays £100 per user whereas Platform B pays £10. The mods could then be suspected of treating Platform A more favourably.
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Post by chris on Apr 25, 2018 8:53:54 GMT
dandy - it's still a conflict of interest as we're effectively endorsing forum policy, and mods can still be accused of being influenced by platforms so that they continue to pay to participate. The idea of referrer links is likely a better solution, at least in the short term, and something that would just plumb straight into our existing affiliate program. chris I think that referrer links are more likely to create conflicts of interest than a fixed annual fee. Simply because platforms can then increase/decrease what they pay per referral. Platform A pays £100 per user whereas Platform B pays £10. The mods could then be suspected of treating Platform A more favourably. Perhaps from the moderator's point of view, although I don't see it as being drastically different to platforms threatening to not pay the £x per annum fee in future. From the platform's point of view though, and to the benefit of the forum, it removes that implicit endorsement of moderation policy and influence in that it's just advertising. It also means that you're not asking all platforms to pay equal amounts where I'm sure there'll be some who would like to reduce public discussion of them so would never contribute. If a few platforms engage and end up paying a bit more in return for more referrals / exposure then that feels like a win win without having to try and threaten platforms who don't participate and over whom there is little leverage.
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pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,178
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Post by pikestaff on Apr 25, 2018 10:20:12 GMT
The only sensible way to fund a forum is to put up advertising slots which you sell through advertising websites and people bid for ads on the site and ... I'm a little confused. Various people are discussing advertising and other funding sources as though it is a proposal for the future. There have already been banner ads for as long as I can remember, together with a link saying "Click here to remove banner ads from this forum." which offers to do so for a payment of $8... 100% of the advertising revenue accrues to ProBoards, who provide the forum platform for free. That's their business model. They aren't about to share the revenue with anybody. GeorgeT 's point is that if you do it independently on your own server (using free software) you get to keep the revenue. The downside is you have to maintain it yourself, which would be more work for somebody. Also, I doubt that it would be possible to migrate this forum across. My impression from a quick google is that ProBoards don't allow it (because their business model is to trap you), so it might be necessary to start again from scratch.
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Post by chris on Apr 25, 2018 10:58:21 GMT
I'm a little confused. Various people are discussing advertising and other funding sources as though it is a proposal for the future. There have already been banner ads for as long as I can remember, together with a link saying "Click here to remove banner ads from this forum." which offers to do so for a payment of $8... 100% of the advertising revenue accrues to ProBoards, who provide the forum platform for free. That's their business model. They aren't about to share the revenue with anybody. GeorgeT 's point is that if you do it independently on your own server (using free software) you get to keep the revenue. The downside is you have to maintain it yourself, which would be more work for somebody. Also, I doubt that it would be possible to migrate this forum across. My impression from a quick google is that ProBoards don't allow it (because their business model is to trap you), so it might be necessary to start again from scratch. It would be technically feasible to screen scrape the content from the existing forum and port that across but it would be a bit fiddly and time consuming to take into account all the formatting variations I assume another forum platform would have. So the content wouldn't necessarily be lost but someone would need to be motivated to put the time and effort in to porting it across.
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pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,178
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Post by pikestaff on Apr 25, 2018 11:34:03 GMT
100% of the advertising revenue accrues to ProBoards, who provide the forum platform for free. That's their business model. They aren't about to share the revenue with anybody. GeorgeT 's point is that if you do it independently on your own server (using free software) you get to keep the revenue. The downside is you have to maintain it yourself, which would be more work for somebody. Also, I doubt that it would be possible to migrate this forum across. My impression from a quick google is that ProBoards don't allow it (because their business model is to trap you), so it might be necessary to start again from scratch. It would be technically feasible to screen scrape the content from the existing forum and port that across but it would be a bit fiddly and time consuming to take into account all the formatting variations I assume another forum platform would have. So the content wouldn't necessarily be lost but someone would need to be motivated to put the time and effort in to porting it across. Yes but that's only the content, not the database, and it would be in breach of ProBoards T&Cs. Plus my impression is they might have counter-measures in place.
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Post by chris on Apr 25, 2018 11:54:04 GMT
It would be technically feasible to screen scrape the content from the existing forum and port that across but it would be a bit fiddly and time consuming to take into account all the formatting variations I assume another forum platform would have. So the content wouldn't necessarily be lost but someone would need to be motivated to put the time and effort in to porting it across. Yes but that's only the content, not the database, and it would be in breach of ProBoards T&Cs. Plus my impression is they might have counter-measures in place. Was only commenting from a technical point of view, rather than from a T&Cs point of view, and you're correct it wouldn't include the rest of the database. Even there though with admin access you could screen scrape user account details and effectively force users to do a password reset to log on to the new platform. Wouldn't be ideal but there would likely be technical solutions to most issues including any counter-measures they may have in place. Edit: For clarity, if that would be a breach of the T&Cs then obviously I wouldn't advocate it. Would need to be properly checked, something I'm not really skilled to do, including who is the legal owner of the content.
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Post by jackpease on Apr 30, 2018 6:35:34 GMT
As I see it the paying debate has been prompted by alleged bad behaviour. Whether paid or not paid, I can't see how mods could ever practically manage fast moving problems particularly at the weekend, if stuff is kicking off late on a saturday night do we really expect mods to all be there to confer and manage it without shutting it down?
Here's a curveball. My user name makes me readily identifiable. If you wish you can google me and rock up on my doorstep/phone me up to hurl abuse at me if i overstep the mark. This makes it all much more 'face to face' ie try to be polite to people and avoid inflammatory posts. Much like road rage where normally mild mannered people become anonymous behind the wheel, anonymous conversations seem doomed to descend into mud slinging. Maybe those who make this forum nasty should be given a choice of using their real name, it might concentrate their minds.
For those that expect mods to 'show their reasoning', do you really think that'd be the end of it? Nahhhh, the mudslinging would start all over.....
Jack P
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 30, 2018 18:11:50 GMT
..... For those that expect mods to 'show their reasoning', do you really think that'd be the end of it? Nahhhh, the mudslinging would start all over..... Jack P Precisely. I have no idea what this particular episode was about, and have got to the point of no longer overly caring. But whatever it was, putting reasoning for actions out there for forensic examination is a total no-win situation.
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blender
Member of DD Central
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Post by blender on Apr 30, 2018 20:57:59 GMT
..... For those that expect mods to 'show their reasoning', do you really think that'd be the end of it? Nahhhh, the mudslinging would start all over..... Jack P Precisely. I have no idea what this particular episode was about, and have got to the point of no longer overly caring. But whatever it was, putting reasoning for actions out there for forensic examination is a total no-win situation. I have to disagree with that. I was away during this episode, and do not know the detail, and it seems I am not allowed to know. But it seems that some people are banned and another forum has been started in competition. Who gains from that? Not p2p lenders. The way I see it is that, unfortunately, those who are responsible for running the forum have failed to manage a small problem, and the forum has been damaged. Some of those banned have been caught in a collective punishment without due process or transparency. Or that's how it seems to me, in my ignorance. Sure, there does seem to have been bad behaviour (unspecified), with which the moderators could not cope. But as well as addressing the bad behaviour, the forum staff need to address their own collective failure to manage it, and need to try to put Humpty Dumpty together again. Writing new rules, without consultation or consent, which give arbitrary powers to act without explanation, appeal, visibility or debate, is a desperate act unbecoming of this fine forum. For me, the forum belongs to the contributors, and to be a moderator is a privilege. Personally I have never had a post moderated, except for quoted posts from others, but if I get banned for naming a character from Alice in Wonderland, then it was clearly time to go anyway.
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toffeeboy
Member of DD Central
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Post by toffeeboy on May 1, 2018 12:06:02 GMT
Precisely. I have no idea what this particular episode was about, and have got to the point of no longer overly caring. But whatever it was, putting reasoning for actions out there for forensic examination is a total no-win situation. I have to disagree with that. I was away during this episode, and do not know the detail, and it seems I am not allowed to know. But it seems that some people are banned and another forum has been started in competition. Who gains from that? Not p2p lenders. The way I see it is that, unfortunately, those who are responsible for running the forum have failed to manage a small problem, and the forum has been damaged. Some of those banned have been caught in a collective punishment without due process or transparency. Or that's how it seems to me, in my ignorance. Sure, there does seem to have been bad behaviour (unspecified), with which the moderators could not cope. But as well as addressing the bad behaviour, the forum staff need to address their own collective failure to manage it, and need to try to put Humpty Dumpty together again. Writing new rules, without consultation or consent, which give arbitrary powers to act without explanation, appeal, visibility or debate, is a desperate act unbecoming of this fine forum. For me, the forum belongs to the contributors, and to be a moderator is a privilege. Personally I have never had a post moderated, except for quoted posts from others, but if I get banned for naming a character from Alice in Wonderland, then it was clearly time to go anyway.
As far I can see the other forum was formed before these members were banned. The other forum is a private members club so they can talk about anything that they want to without fear of being accused of dropping the information onto the public internet, this forum started the DD central in response to this to do exactly the same thing. If being a member of DD Central is not enough then apply to join the other forum, you are a well known member of this forum so I am sure they would love to have you as a member.
This is and should remain a free public forum which like it or not means that the moderators have to be very careful what is allowed to be posted and someone who continually flaunts these rules should be banned. The moderators aren't paid for their services so they shouldn't have to tolerate members trying to push the boundaries for any reason at all.
The forum belongs to the public not just the contributors and as such needs to be without reproach with anything that is posted on here.
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