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Post by point5clue on Apr 23, 2018 21:16:13 GMT
Hi All,
I've been very happy with Z+ and its previous iterations - I am comfortable with the level of defaults and the real return I have got over the last couple of years having carefully ensured that no loan goes above £10 (with the odd £20 hiccup)
I don't want to pick loans, and am happy to let diversification give me 'near average' performance. To me, 5pc is a lot, and I think I understand the risks - especially the liquidity risk - looking to build future income, not a lump sum...
But... I don't want to put any more money in Zopa, so have been looking for an alternative for this years IF-ISA.
From what I have read FC has an ISA, and doesn't allow 'cherry picking' of loans. Its to businesses, not consumers, so another tick for diversification.
Am I missing anything ? Anyone suggest a better alternative, or what is better worse than Zopa ?
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david42
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Post by david42 on Apr 24, 2018 8:27:26 GMT
A very similar question was discussed recently here. |
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Post by df on Apr 24, 2018 13:39:52 GMT
Hi All, I've been very happy with Z+ and its previous iterations - I am comfortable with the level of defaults and the real return I have got over the last couple of years having carefully ensured that no loan goes above £10 (with the odd £20 hiccup) I don't want to pick loans, and am happy to let diversification give me 'near average' performance. To me, 5pc is a lot, and I think I understand the risks - especially the liquidity risk - looking to build future income, not a lump sum... But... I don't want to put any more money in Zopa, so have been looking for an alternative for this years IF-ISA. From what I have read FC has an ISA, and doesn't allow 'cherry picking' of loans. Its to businesses, not consumers, so another tick for diversification. Am I missing anything ? Anyone suggest a better alternative, or what is better worse than Zopa ? FC has bad reputation because of large and increasing number of defaults. However, it works for me as a long term investment, I've never gone below 7% return. One of the advantages of FC is a large number of loans (same advantage as on Zopa). FC will diversify at 0.5% exposure if you invest 4k+ (minimum investment per loan is £20). Also LendingCrowd is offering ISA at target 6% return. It is similar to FC (SME lending), but with smaller loan book, so your diversification might not be as good. However, it can offset the risk by cash back offer.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 24, 2018 15:57:05 GMT
Hi All, I've been very happy with Z+ and its previous iterations - I am comfortable with the level of defaults and the real return I have got over the last couple of years having carefully ensured that no loan goes above £10 (with the odd £20 hiccup) I don't want to pick loans, and am happy to let diversification give me 'near average' performance. To me, 5pc is a lot, and I think I understand the risks - especially the liquidity risk - looking to build future income, not a lump sum... But... I don't want to put any more money in Zopa, so have been looking for an alternative for this years IF-ISA. From what I have read FC has an ISA, and doesn't allow 'cherry picking' of loans. Its to businesses, not consumers, so another tick for diversification. Am I missing anything ? Anyone suggest a better alternative, or what is better worse than Zopa ? If you are happy with 5pc, then you should consider FC once you are happy with the risks. Here's my account summary of one of my newish FC account. I opened it on 15th Dec 2017: Gross yield: 11.5% ? Annualised return (after fees and bad debts): 10.3% ? Estimated fully diversified return (after fees and bad debts): 7.6% No of loan comments: 8 loans (0 days late / late / default) Total no of loans invested (on newish FC account) : 253 So far, no defaults yet since 15th Dec 2017
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 24, 2018 16:54:52 GMT
Hi All, I've been very happy with Z+ and its previous iterations - I am comfortable with the level of defaults and the real return I have got over the last couple of years having carefully ensured that no loan goes above £10 (with the odd £20 hiccup) I don't want to pick loans, and am happy to let diversification give me 'near average' performance. To me, 5pc is a lot, and I think I understand the risks - especially the liquidity risk - looking to build future income, not a lump sum... But... I don't want to put any more money in Zopa, so have been looking for an alternative for this years IF-ISA. From what I have read FC has an ISA, and doesn't allow 'cherry picking' of loans. Its to businesses, not consumers, so another tick for diversification. Am I missing anything ? Anyone suggest a better alternative, or what is better worse than Zopa ? If you are happy with 5pc, then you should consider FC once you are happy with the risks. Here's my account summary of one of my newish FC account. I opened it on 15th Dec 2017: Gross yield: 11.5% ? Annualised return (after fees and bad debts): 10.3% ? Estimated fully diversified return (after fees and bad debts): 7.6% No of loan comments: 8 loans (0 days late / late / default) Total no of loans invested (on newish FC account) : 253 So far, no defaults yet since 15th Dec 2017 Interesting benaj I've got: -a years-old FC account: bad debt has increased by about 2% of 1/1/18 figure (currently running it down) -a new FC account (from when they ditched manual bids): bad debt has increased by about 0.2% of 1/1/18 figure i.e. 10 fold difference between old/new. Even when I did manual bids, they were never as high as 0.5%, so I can't explain the difference.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 24, 2018 17:18:36 GMT
Interesting benaj I've got: -a years-old FC account: bad debt has increased by about 2% of 1/1/18 figure (currently running it down) -a new FC account (from when they ditched manual bids): bad debt has increased by about 0.2% of 1/1/18 figure i.e. 10 fold difference between old/new. Even when I did manual bids, they were never as high as 0.5%, so I can't explain the difference. My oldest FC account opened in 2016, i made a number of mistakes myself by picking bad loans before FC removed secondary market amd manual bidding. It delivers just over 5% Summary of my oldest account: Annualised return: 5.1% Gross yield: 10.9% Protected return: 7.2% No of total loans:242 (sold more than 600 loans) No of loan comments: 36 The annualised return of 5.1% is not the end of the world.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Apr 24, 2018 18:00:12 GMT
Should I diversify - well here is my latest summary
Investment total (1st April 2018) £904.73
Interest earned from borrowers £10.27
Fees: Fee for selling loans - £1.63
Bad debt: New defaults - £153.02
Bad debt: Repayments from defaults £3.62
I am losing money month after month and at this rate I will lose well over a thousand pounds and my entire remaining capital balance. Today is the 23rd so since the 1st of the month I have had £153.02 bad debts on capital of £904.73! If this is their "plus" account I sure would hate a negative one!
True I withdrew a large part of my holding about 18 months ago which seemed to leave the rubbish which I estimate at 10-20% so anybody you either trust Zopa and hope the default rates don't worsen (which I think they will) or you pay Zopa 1% and be left with rubbish
and appalling returns on the balance such as above
I would be banned if I typed here what I think of Zopa except to say I am appalled.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 24, 2018 18:15:14 GMT
To be fair, I haven't found a perfect p2p platform yet.
Some platforms have more issues than others.
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Post by df on Apr 25, 2018 2:17:58 GMT
My oldest FC account opened in 2016, i made a number of mistakes myself by picking bad loans before FC removed secondary market amd manual bidding. It delivers just over 5% Summary of my oldest account: Annualised return: 5.1% Gross yield: 10.9% Protected return: 7.2% No of total loans:242 (sold more than 600 loans) No of loan comments: 36 The annualised return of 5.1% is not the end of the world. I only have one. It is 19 months old. I didn't use autobid until 18th Sept last year. Summary: Annualised return: 7.4% Gross yield: 12.8% Projected return: 8.5% Loans: 324 Loan comments: 59 (15 downgraded) Defaults: 14 (recoveries 2%)
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Apr 25, 2018 6:02:09 GMT
Should I diversify - well here is my latest summary Investment total (1st April 2018) £904.73Interest earned from borrowers £10.27 Fees: Fee for selling loans - £1.63 Bad debt: New defaults - £153.02
Bad debt: Repayments from defaults £3.62 I am losing money month after month and at this rate I will lose well over a thousand pounds and my entire remaining capital balance. Today is the 23rd so since the 1st of the month I have had £153.02 bad debts on capital of £904.73! If this is their "plus" account I sure would hate a negative one! True I withdrew a large part of my holding about 18 months ago which seemed to leave the rubbish which I estimate at 10-20% so anybody you either trust Zopa and hope the default rates don't worsen (which I think they will) or you pay Zopa 1% and be left with rubbish and appalling returns on the balance such as above I would be banned if I typed here what I think of Zopa except to say I am appalled. Yes, selling out leaves you with cr*p. Just like most other accounts with a secondary market. So of course your getting diabolical defaults, because, um, you’re left with loans trending toward default. That would be the case on any platform. Sorry you didn’t understand the issue. P2p has its risks.....
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Apr 25, 2018 6:19:41 GMT
of course I understand the issue - what I don't understand is why Zopa won't give an accurate figure as to what their true default rate actually is. Also I don't understand why they claim most loans are sold within 20 days - mine weren't and when I asked for an explanation they told me
that such loans were "sold" when they reached the queue but I had to wait for them to reach the queue - give me a break! Also I got nothing like the projected rate before I sold up
And what happens if Zopa default rates increase as I am sure they will - even more angry lenders, even more trouble for Zopa to attract new money. In my simple mind this is a disaster waiting to happen - I am just glad I am nearly done with Zopa.
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