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Post by chris on May 1, 2018 14:59:22 GMT
Although you can do this you should be able to see what is available at what discounts so people can browse through and see there is something you can buy at a 30% discount. At the moment you have no way of browsing the discounted loans afaik This is coming in a few weeks regardless of the outcome of the poll or any policy changes. However you can currently set up a buy order on loans you may be interested in buying but only at a discount by specifying the minimum discount you'd be interested in purchasing at. To clarify - discounting doesn't only happen when there's impaired credit. Sometimes people want to jump the sale queue so will offer a small discount to make their loan unit the most attractive on the market. Even if you're full on a particular loan perhaps you'd be interested in buying a little bit more if it had a 1% discount. This is possible on the current system. We're also going to enable having multiple buy / sell orders on a given loan along with being able to set a target investment amount, so in theory you could set up a buy order to take anything that had a 10% discount and then immediately put it up for sale at a 5% discount, with the right combination of buy and sell orders.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on May 1, 2018 15:04:33 GMT
I might use this discounting feature, for buys and/or sells. Ahead of that, I'd prefer AC stop borrowers dictating the Voting options when loans go into default and do it themselves (so we don't get any more 'would you like to lend us money interest-free for 6 months ?') It is fair to say that the wording of that could be better. We will be explaining in the future how borrowers put proposals to us but also how we have contribution to that process, may block some and may seek advice on other options more clearly in the near future - its a WIP. Suffice to say that this loan was not merely changed to zero interest at the borrower's behest with no view from AC on whether that would help with getting repayment or whether other sensible options were available.
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Post by mrclondon on May 1, 2018 15:45:20 GMT
If this applies to all loans, it will be fascinating to observe lender behaviour on those loans for which there is very little hope of further recovery, but which haven't yet been formally written off by AC. I note the system already permits discounts right up to 99.5%, so the system will cater for such cases.
We all know the HMRC rules on claiming loss relief on distressed p2p loans are very hard to interpret at the best of times. I think it would be beholden on AC to offer some basic guidance on the implications when buying/selling loans at a discount for which the seller has already claimed loss relief, or for which the buyer would have been eligible to claim loss relief if he/she had been holding the loan at the time of the default. Most AC lenders can not afford to seek the specialist tax advice that will be required in such cases.
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Post by pikeman on May 1, 2018 16:02:31 GMT
Having choice is always good
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Post by crabbyoldgit on May 1, 2018 16:15:13 GMT
Ok just for fun , what discount would maybe tempt a buyer on 330. The least likely in my opinion to get any further recovery, but who knows could be near 100% capital. Come on this would maybe give us all a feel of what such a market look like.
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Post by davee39 on May 1, 2018 16:46:01 GMT
Ok just for fun , what discount would maybe tempt a buyer on 330. The least likely in my opinion to get any further recovery, but who knows could be near 100% capital. Come on this would maybe give us all a feel of what such a market look like. Full information on 330 is not available on the loan page, but was sent by email to relevant lenders. I would only expect to see discounted loan sales for those loans where all information is equally available to buyers and sellers, and where the main asset supporting the loan is in place. Speculating on potential recoveries from Bankrupt Guarantors or other legal proceedings, even at a huge discount, is pure gambling which I would not welcome.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on May 1, 2018 16:57:06 GMT
If this applies to all loans, it will be fascinating to observe lender behaviour on those loans for which there is very little hope of further recovery, but which haven't yet been formally written off by AC. I note the system already permits discounts right up to 99.5%, so the system will cater for such cases. We all know the HMRC rules on claiming loss relief on distressed p2p loans are very hard to interpret at the best of times. I think it would be beholden on AC to offer some basic guidance on the implications when buying/selling loans at a discount for which the seller has already claimed loss relief, or for which the buyer would have been eligible to claim loss relief if he/she had been holding the loan at the time of the default. Most AC lenders can not afford to seek the specialist tax advice that will be required in such cases. A valid point and one we will look to find a way to deliver on.
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cb25
Posts: 3,528 
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Post by cb25 on May 1, 2018 17:20:46 GMT
If this applies to all loans, it will be fascinating to observe lender behaviour on those loans for which there is very little hope of further recovery, but which haven't yet been formally written off by AC. I note the system already permits discounts right up to 99.5%, so the system will cater for such cases. We all know the HMRC rules on claiming loss relief on distressed p2p loans are very hard to interpret at the best of times. I think it would be beholden on AC to offer some basic guidance on the implications when buying/selling loans at a discount for which the seller has already claimed loss relief, or for which the buyer would have been eligible to claim loss relief if he/she had been holding the loan at the time of the default. Most AC lenders can not afford to seek the specialist tax advice that will be required in such cases. A valid point and one we will look to find a way to deliver on. P2P platforms are usually loathe to step into anything that might be considered advice (imagine that's because they need to satisfy a whole raft of regulation), so will be interesting to see how AC might play the 'guidance' angle.
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Post by mead187 on May 1, 2018 17:44:56 GMT
I realise I'm in the minority here but I voted No. Whilst I understand most people on this platform are informed and seasoned investors there's always going to be an amount of users who are new to P2P/Assetz. By voting No I hope it offers them some level of protection from purchasing loans which may not stand a chance of reaching a positive conclusion. I fear there will be some level of predatory behavior from users trying to offload junk into the hands of unsuspecting and less savvy investors. In my opinion if a loan goes sour then tough luck, it's yours to love and behold.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 1, 2018 17:54:05 GMT
I'll hold my hands up and say I am not a big fan of allowing trading in suspended and defaulted loans, even though I suspect that I and others could benefit from it. I think there is strong potential for disparity of understanding/information. This is currently a retail targeted (set of) products. Allowing trading in known to be troubled loans cause increase pressure/need to only allow certain categories of self certified participants. The tax positions also may not be well understood by all parties (MRC's post noted).
What other platforms do allow this ? FC never did (even a late payment caused trading suspension until sorted); TC never has (OK, I'm not holding that up as a role model); others ?
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Post by mrclondon on May 1, 2018 17:55:51 GMT
A valid point and one we will look to find a way to deliver on. P2P platforms are usually loathe to step into anything that might be considered advice (imagine that's because they need to satisfy a whole raft of regulation), so will be interesting to see how AC might play the 'guidance' angle. Agreed, but FS manage to strike a sensible balance with their notes on the SM taxation (towards the bottom of www.fundingsecure.com/invest-with-us/secondary-market ) "ADVICE
Please note, we are unable to provide any specific information about tax. The wording below is for indicative purposes only, and does not constitute tax advice. If you are in any doubt about your tax position you should speak to your accountant or an adviser at an HMRC enquiry centre. This information is only relevant to UK tax resident individuals holding loans directly as legal and beneficial owner."
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Post by mrclondon on May 1, 2018 18:14:56 GMT
mead187 / bracknellboy to an extent I agree with your sentiments with regard to loans that are subject to formal recovery procedures (receiver action / administration / liquidation etc), particularly for the reason davee39 mentioned that once formal recovery procedures are underway the information flow is normally restricted to current holders of the loan only, making it impossible to price an appropriate discount even for the few with skills to do so. However, the point that Butch Cassidy was making on page 1 of the thread is that AC seem to have a hopelessly inconsistent approach to suspending loans from trade. Loan #227 (the 0% loan) has had a formally documented six month extension agreed by lenders (via a vote) and the borrower and AC. The loan is not subject to formal recovery action, and is currently (as far as we know) fully compliant with the agreed loan extension. And yet the loan is not tradeable, for some unknown reason. It seems crazy that those of us who opposed the provision of a six months interest free loan extension for the borrower should be prevented from selling our loan parts (at a modest discount) to those who would see the discount as providing a return on the investment over the six month interest free period. From time to time there are other examples of loans which (as far as we are told) are fully compliant with current loan agreements, but are suspended from trade. The simple, short term, answer would be for AC to re-enable trade in all loans which are compliant with current loan agreements, such as #227. It would take away many of the complaints at a stroke. (I see no material difference between #227 and the previous Aberystwyth loan which I was allowed to sell at a discount after lenders voted for in effect a long term deferral of interest accrued and to be accrued. It makes investment decisions at AC pot luck given the random application of decisons to suspend trade in loans.)
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angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on May 1, 2018 18:24:29 GMT
I realise I'm in the minority here but I voted No. Whilst I understand most people on this platform are informed and seasoned investors there's always going to be an amount of users who are new to P2P/Assetz. By voting No I hope it offers them some level of protection from purchasing loans which may not stand a chance of reaching a positive conclusion. I fear there will be some level of predatory behavior from users trying to offload junk into the hands of unsuspecting and less savvy investors. In my opinion if a loan goes sour then tough luck, it's yours to love and behold. I agree with this point of view also. This should be a feature you have to unlock on your account and not switched on by default. Anyone want to buy some turbine loans? 
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IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
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Post by IFISAcava on May 1, 2018 18:43:05 GMT
I realise I'm in the minority here but I voted No. Whilst I understand most people on this platform are informed and seasoned investors there's always going to be an amount of users who are new to P2P/Assetz. By voting No I hope it offers them some level of protection from purchasing loans which may not stand a chance of reaching a positive conclusion. I fear there will be some level of predatory behavior from users trying to offload junk into the hands of unsuspecting and less savvy investors. In my opinion if a loan goes sour then tough luck, it's yours to love and behold. I agree with this point of view also. This should be a feature you have to unlock on your account and not switched on by default. Anyone want to buy some turbine loans? if you offer them at 10p in the pound - worth a punt I'd say!
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Post by Butch Cassidy on May 1, 2018 18:56:49 GMT
Loan #74 is another example that is currently in refinancing with another bridging lender albeit slowly: it offers 18% coupon with interest being rolled up, since the borrower said that they would no longer fund the interest back in Sept 2017 (buffer ran out Oct 2017), it remained tradable until the end of March 2018, in fact lenders were assured "Trading will remain enabled unless there is an event which, at Assetz Capital’s discretion, necessitates the loan being suspended." After the latest positive update the loan was suspended with no plausible explanation & refusal to provide the reasons why.
I am happy to buy this loan but am currently prevented by AC & risk the failure of the refinancing & possible recovery results in return for the prospect of 18% rolled up. THIS LOAN IS NOT IN RECOVERY & IMO should not be suspended but AC show no consistency & I regard their assurance regarding continued trading as misleading lenders & suspending "at Assetz Capital’s discretion" should be either backed by detailed explanation of what has changed or just supports my belief there simply is no suspension policy & these decisions are taken on an ad hoc basis based purely on how the AC employee happens to feel on any given day. stuartassetzcapital please feel free to provide the reasons why I am wrong to think this?
Other examples from memory that followed similar patterns were the Leeds loan & Aberystwyth hotel - ALL LENDERS WANT IS CONSISTANCY BACKED BY STATED POLICY not just this pot luck approach to suspensions.
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