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Post by brightspark on Aug 18, 2018 8:37:25 GMT
You need to take a holistic approach. Diversify and they are not losses they just result in a lower overall return. 504 days is less than 2yrs lots of p2p have 3year minimum for investment the whole sector is not for those that need investments to pay on the dot. I,m happy that they usually pay or are recovered. Expect every loan to last 24 months and you won,t be too upset and you can relax and enjoy the benefits when they come. Yes, you are right. With FS, expect the same return of Knaresbury, i.e. ZERO CAPITAL return and you will be happy. Stay away people. FS is not capable of managing your hard earned money. Don't listen those sent here to show it is a positive situation. The fact that P2P has mostly turned into a cage of whales (with some other companies in desperate situations as FS) does not confort me... I am getting slowly out of this sector as there are too many delinquent people around (and not only among borrowers)... This is a continuous disaster. Take away all you can while you can. Though I personally have had losses with FS it would be wrong to condemn the individual platform or the entire p to p sector. It is not for anyone unfamiliar with higher risk lending. Neither is it suitable as a vehicle to store money until needed in a hurry. It is salutary to look at what went wrong between 2005 and 2007 in the US as in a slightly different manner it is to an extent being replicated in parts of the p to p industry today i.e. in particular poor quality loan offerings being dressed up as reasonable punts, financiers disdainful of their customer base, information provided on loans akin to due diligence described by the US regulators as bullshit. Invest via FS if you feel it wise but anticipate disappointment if/when up to 100% loss occurs on some loans wiping out gains made elsewhere. Personally I have withdrawn from investing in FS other than a fag end of 5 overdue loans. The risk/reward ratio is wrong and the prevailing economic climate is not conducive.
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bg
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Post by bg on Aug 18, 2018 8:59:17 GMT
It's very simple. With a properly run and managed P2P site lending money with property as security then losses will be rare as the sale of the property will always cover outstanding and unpaid money, except in the event of some total collapse of the property market. It is obvious that for many sites loans are being given out where the security value of the properties are nothing like the true value and in some cases the security does not even seem to exist. Sales of property does not "always cover all outstanding and unpaid money". Bog standard liquid residential property around the average price, yes you would expect this to be the case but when it comes to commercial, very unusual properties (like castles or churches), high value, development loans or extremely illiquid properties then a sale at 50% (or less) of the original value can not be ruled out - and is one of the reasons the risk is so high. For a second charge loan this can result in catastrophic losses. Take the supplemental Knaresborough loan (£100k) that has just seen a 100% loss. This has to be probably the riskiest loan I have ever seen on any P2P platform. Every alarm bell should not just have been ringing but blaring...I would never go near a loan like this. The chances of total loss were extremely high and is the reason why the rate (16%) was also the highest I have seen on a secured lending platform. I wouldn't have invested in this loan if the rate had been 35%. The warning signs were (amongst others):- 1. Third charge loan behind another lender and another FS loan. When it comes to receivers selling the property the first charge holder owns the process - FS can't do little to impact it. The first charge holder just wants their money back, they don't care about 2nd and 3rd charges. That they sold the property for an amount that just about repays their loan but not the other charges does not surprise me. 2. The property was single occupation residential in North Yorkshire valued around £4m. This is a ridiculous sum of money for the area...i can't imagine there are many transactions at all around this price point. It's going to be extremely illiquid and challenging to find a buyer. Even properties in Mayfair around this price bracket have seen huge price falls in the past year or two, never mind in Yorkshire. 3. Four valuation estimates of the property were taken and the spread in estimates was £750k - again another huge signal that the property is likely to be highly illiquid. 4. There were still substantial costs required to complete the property - again greatly increasing the risks 5. A legal tangle with the guy's wife. FS did not throw our money at this loan. Investors have to actively choose to invest in it - and were likely attracted by the very high rate but didn't stop to consider the risks.
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09dolphin
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Post by 09dolphin on Aug 18, 2018 16:04:13 GMT
Knowing the facts I wonder why FS actually ever allowed the"loan" referred to to be posted. FS decided to post what was obviously a seriously unsafe loan and they must take responsibility for this.
Surely one would expect FS to be more sophisticated than the average investor as they are far more experienced - whereas I would think a greater percentage of existing investors have very limited experience and foolishly expect the platform to not put up loans which are almost guaranteed to fail 100%. Yes I know that expecting FS to take a morale stance regarding the investments they offer is unrealistic but I do expect people to be honourable.
All I can conclude is that only very experienced investors should ever invest with FS and amateur investors should avoid FS if they want to retain whatever money they have. This will obviously seriously limit FSs ability to lend as I hope investors like me will give FS as wide a berth as possible.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 16:18:13 GMT
As you say "BG" " FS did not throw our money at this loan. Investors have to actively choose to invest in it - and were likely attracted by the very high rate but didn't stop to consider the risks. " As I keep saying risk equals reward I’ve over half a million in FS and have had for a while. Currently 15%-20% return mostly tax free.
People say they have a "loss" to get my return I buy and sell over 20 Million in transactions in a 5 mth loan period. I reduce risk by getting out before due date except for relatively small amounts in loans selling >20% so any defaults are far outweighed by massively increased returns on loans that pay on time. Everybody keeps saying it is terrible in FS so I have a challenge. Over the last two years can anybody show me they had a overall loss on their total investments properly diversified ? Also can anyone tell me the actual % of funds lent that were not recovered in say 12 months. It takes a lot of time and effort to make a decent return. Far more time than it takes to pop some money into a badly researched loan and then write about how bad it is novbody held your hand and spoonfed you massive interest. I agree with all those getting out and sticking to 1-2% in the bank is their best choice.
Just out of interest (no pun intended) Where are all these people going with their money. I've been doing this a few years now and have conciderable sums in a lot of P2P (even mid-20K in Collateral) but still overall on track for 100%
interest over 5yrs. My investments in Stock market are making about 10% but that is Taxable and also carries a risk of TOTAL LOSS .
Unless there is fraud or you put money in a 2nd charge loan the chances of total loss are slim.
Again there are only a small number of loans actually result in loss of capital of any amount.
Not all politicians are bad and not all loans result in a loss or should I say result in a reduction in overall return.
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 18, 2018 16:35:29 GMT
Interesting post above.
Well if not our money then whose money did they throw at it? FS weren't forced to offer this applicant a huge amount of money for a floored scheme which was not even finished, seems to have been very badly run and never even had a structural survey let alone professional evaluation before going to market. I would politely suggest that a lot of investors trusted the valuation and were making a reasonable decision based on unreasonable information. I posted my comments as a) I know this business and b) have developer friends very close to the site and was concerned for others losing their money - it was as simple as that.
This site is called Funding Secure "not give us your money and play Russian Roulette with grossly over-valued and problematic investments"... just my opinion.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 16:39:36 GMT
Just checked currently my stats are <2% of capital lent is in default .
Should they be a Total loss (very little chance of that) that just over 6 weeks of interest at my current rate of return. Not too high to warrent any concern.
People with smaller amounts to invest have an easier time as it takes less time to manage I currently aggressively manage £6000 for a friend that takes less than 15 mins every couple of days. It is giving a 23.6% return no defaults or risk of default.
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number5
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Post by number5 on Aug 18, 2018 16:44:39 GMT
Just checked currently my stats are <2% of capital lent is in default .
Should they be a Total loss (very little chance of that) that just over 6 weeks of interest at my current rate of return. Not too high to warrent any concern.
People with smaller amounts to invest have an easier time as it takes less time to manage I currently aggressively manage £6000 for a friend that takes less than 15 mins every couple of days. It is giving a 23.6% return no defaults or risk of default.
Out of interest, how are you manging that sort of return?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 18, 2018 16:51:40 GMT
Just checked currently my stats are <2% of capital lent is in default .
Should they be a Total loss (very little chance of that) that just over 6 weeks of interest at my current rate of return. Not too high to warrent any concern.
People with smaller amounts to invest have an easier time as it takes less time to manage I currently aggressively manage £6000 for a friend that takes less than 15 mins every couple of days. It is giving a 23.6% return no defaults or risk of default.
Hi. How are you achieving anything like 23.6% given most of the loans are around the 12% mark and you presumably don't buy loans close to term (you said you sell them).
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 16:52:18 GMT
Interesting post above. Well if not our money then whose money did they throw at it? FS weren't forced to offer this applicant a huge amount of money for a floored scheme which was not even finished, seems to have been very badly run and never even had a structural survey let alone professional evaluation before going to market. I would politely suggest that a lot of investors trusted the valuation and were making a reasonable decision based on unreasonable information. I posted my comments as a) I know this business and b) have developer friends very close to the site and was concerned for others losing their money - it was as simple as that. This site is called Funding Secure "not give us your money and play Russian Roulette with grossly over-valued and problematic investments"... just my opinion. Who is the member of my group of Gods that can give a 100% guarnteed valuation  FS use RIAS approved valuers if they are grossly inacurate then the are responsible and can be sued.
Your money invested in "Funding Secure not Funding 100% Secure." YOUR MONEY IS AT RISK !!!!!. Heed the warnings
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 18, 2018 16:55:24 GMT
Care to post details so we the great unwashed can confirm your spectactular success - you clearly have talents which I am lacking.
I guess these figures don't include overdue loans but only include formally defaulted loans?
Once the huge list of late and overdue loans is formalised I wonder if your return will be quite so stellar!
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Aug 18, 2018 17:29:04 GMT
As I keep saying risk equals reward I’ve over half a million in FS and have had for a while. Currently 15%-20% return mostly tax free.
So you took your 30K out and then put in over 500? I wonder what was it that allowed you to regain your confidence?
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Post by Ace on Aug 18, 2018 17:29:14 GMT
...I’ve over half a million in FS and have had for a while. Currently 15%-20% return mostly tax free...
...to get my return I buy and sell over 20 Million in transactions in a 5 mth loan period...
Well, I have to say "I'm impressed!". Only a deity such as yourself could achieve such spectacular returns. I'm a tad surprised that someone that boasts of such large investments and so amazing powers wouldn't know his exact return down to at least 3 decimal places! To achieve 20 million in transactions in 5 months with a half million fund would require buying and selling the whole half million fund at a profit at least once a week. Again, a truly remarkable achievement. I for one would gladly pay good money to learn from such a master. I can only hope that for those mere mortal investors in FS that the fact that the God of embalming is such a devotee of the platform is not portentous.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 17:55:49 GMT
As I keep saying risk equals reward I’ve over half a million in FS and have had for a while. Currently 15%-20% return mostly tax free.
So you took your 30K out and then put in over 500? I wonder what was it that allowed you to regain your confidence? Thanks for reading my posts BUT it was my error. That was FC I inadvertantly put FS it is in FC notorious London loans, Still made small 5% profit in FC Thanks Again
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 18:03:44 GMT
Thanks for reading my posts BUT it was my error. That was FC I inadvertantly put FS it is in FC notorious London loans, Still made small 5% profit in FC Thanks Again
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 18, 2018 18:05:45 GMT
Well, I have to say "I'm impressed!". Only a deity such as yourself could achieve such spectacular returns. I'm a tad surprised that someone that boasts of such large investments and so amazing powers wouldn't know his exact return down to at least 3 decimal places! To achieve 20 million in transactions in 5 months with a half million fund would require buying and selling the whole half million fund at a profit at least once a week. Again, a truly remarkable achievement. I for one would gladly pay good money to learn from such a master. I can only hope that for those mere mortal investors in FS that the fact that the God of embalming is such a devotee of the platform is not portentous. FS reports a total sales volume of around 34 millions in the last 5 months. If anything godanubis writes was even close to the truth (and it is clearly just fiction, as any word from FS defenders), he would on his own cover 60% of the total FS sales.... (and he is stating even selling at a profit.... haha haha). People, don't believe fantasy stories. The reality is that this FS platform is stuck in a very very very bad situation and if NPL don't diminuish (and they can only do that with a serious legal team working on it 24/7/365) very rapidly, this is my most likely candidate for the next big platform failure within 24 months. Have sent you private message explaining. Happy to send spreadsheat showing transactions but you would just share it with Donald and call it FAKE NEWS
For others look at FS total investors not a lot ? ie. There are a lot of us with lots in various places I just plod along with helping friends and family. Total investments in the Millions
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FS use RIAS approved valuers if they are grossly inacurate then the are responsible and can be sued. 
