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Post by alazon on Aug 9, 2018 21:45:41 GMT
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benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Aug 9, 2018 23:42:47 GMT
Zopa hasn't lost me a penny yet. It is definitely not the worse as I can see I can earn from bad debt repayment alone with no active loans at all. I wasn't happy about my investment because I was naive to believe high return. China p2p issue is kinda unique, not just the risk from borrowers, but other risk like scams / ponzi scheme, weak regulations enforcement possibly due to bribery and some investors putting all eggs in one basket. m.scmp.com/tech/china-tech/article/2156832/chinese-peer-peer-pioneer-defends-industry-after-wave-defaults
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coogaruk
Hello everyone! Anyone remember me?
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Post by coogaruk on Aug 10, 2018 13:34:09 GMT
I can earn from bad debt repayment alone with no active loans at all. How does that work then?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 10, 2018 13:39:45 GMT
I can earn from bad debt repayment alone with no active loans at all. How does that work then? I sold all my good loans back in Dec'17, my account was left with arrangements, collections and defaults, but I only started to receive my bad debt repayment in march '18. Now all my arrangements and collections have turned to defaults, but my bad debt repayment continues to grow steadily. I also managed to make a real profit as I have withdrawn more money than I deposited in the Zopa Plus at the end of July. I believe in the next 5 - 10 years, I may continue to receive bad debt repayment up to 3% of my all time investment value in total. only time will tell. My current default is 5% of all time investment value for investing 8 months in Plus.
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Post by GentlemansFamilyFinances on Aug 20, 2018 15:31:27 GMT
I believe that investors in P2P will get burnt but in saying that - once of the things that is said about ZOPA is that it wasn't around during the last crash. Well it was and I lost money and I made it back and it's been an ok investment (from a % return and ROCE but not so much on a return on my time) - so I'll hold off calling 999 just for now.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 20, 2018 19:19:04 GMT
I didn't think any one actually lost money on Zopa in the last crash, my returns reduced but I always had positive returns. Edit: At the time the Zopa forum was very active and I only remember one lender saying they were even close to losing money. And lenders were not shy in coming forward in fact the exact opposite.
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Post by samford71 on Aug 20, 2018 19:28:18 GMT
I didn't think any one actually lost money on Zopa in the last crash, my returns reduced but I always had positive returns. Worth mentioning, however, that the default rate on some Zopa loan cohorts from 2015 onwards has exceeded that observed in the peak of early 2009. Zopa was incredibly small in 2008/09 and still had a relatively high quality borrower base. Like most P2P platforms, as it scaled up it has been forced to originate loans with lower quality borrowers. Banks have become massively more competitive in recent years at providing instant unsecured consumer loans to higher quality prime borrowers; this has crowded out P2P platforms with those types of borrowers. For example, I can currently press a button and get a 5-year unsecured loan for 50k at 2.5% from my high street bank; definately couldn't do that in 2008/09. So I'm not at all convinced that the behaviour of the Zopa loanbook of 2008/09 is in any way indicative of how it will behave in 2018/19.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Aug 21, 2018 7:10:22 GMT
I didn't think any one actually lost money on Zopa in the last crash, my returns reduced but I always had positive returns. Worth mentioning, however, that the default rate on some Zopa loan cohorts from 2015 onwards has exceeded that observed in the peak of early 2009. Zopa was incredibly small in 2008/09 and still had a relatively high quality borrower base. Like most P2P platforms, as it scaled up it has been forced to originate loans with lower quality borrowers. Banks have become massively more competitive in recent years at providing instant unsecured consumer loans to higher quality prime borrowers; this has crowded out P2P platforms with those types of borrowers. For example, I can currently press a button and get a 5-year unsecured loan for 50k at 2.5% from my high street bank; definately couldn't do that in 2008/09. So I'm not at all convinced that the behaviour of the Zopa loanbook of 2008/09 is in any way indicative of how it will behave in 2018/19. My problem in 2008/09 was that not only did I suffer a high default rate, but nearly all of my high interest rate loans either defaulted or repaid early. I haven't ever worked out my total return for this period, but my guess is that on some measures, especially when combined with the disadvantageous tax treatment of those losses I had a negative return. Zops has changed since then, as has the tax, and early repayment isn't the same problem in a rising interest rate world so it isn't that useful for me to work out my returns for that time. Just had a quick look at Zopa site, there isn't really enough data before 2015 for me to do much, and my emails for the period aren't easily accessible.
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aju
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Post by aju on Aug 21, 2018 13:34:27 GMT
I have data going back that far but sadly I only had minimal skin in the game in 2008, having started in Dec 2006 with £100 just to see what the fuss was all about. I added a further £75 towards the end of 2008 but none of that was lent out until January 2009. As a consequence I have no defaults until 2009 when I added a further £1000 in July and by the end of 1009 I had picked up 6 defaults in 133 loans taken out in 2009. So by then defaults on 2009 loans were 4.51% and defaults of total loans to date were 3.92%. Sorry about the size click it and you will see better. Its not exactly showing that much for 2008 but as I say 2009 shows a start of defaults. I too have not made any losses, I have a considerably ramp up of defaults, fortunately mostly £10 or less, but according to my XIRR for each year since Jan 2015 (The statements reports start point) I am not losing by a long way and even better than the banks have provided over the same period, current accounts that is. I should say though that my lending rates to Plus have never been more than 20% overall. Also the table does not include SG defaults either - there are many of those too but the losses obn those are/were nil. I should also say that these figures have been collated from Invest and the more recent ISA for both myself and Mrs Aju. Another thing to bear in mind is that settled are not part of this data I have a number of those but they are full losses. I'm trying to find a way to include that data, I'm nearly there and if it shows up a real difference I will change the info.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Aug 31, 2018 19:57:52 GMT
This month has been quite good for me. And overall not too bad.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Aug 31, 2018 20:05:47 GMT
I don't have any active loans yet, I have 50% increase in bad debt repayment compared to July.
So far my all time real Zopa plus profit since I started is 0.109%.
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