dc848
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Post by dc848 on Aug 14, 2018 10:06:18 GMT
A vote is now on until Friday 6pm.
It doesn't look pretty.
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snowmobile
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Post by snowmobile on Aug 14, 2018 10:27:44 GMT
The phrase 'throwing good money after bad' comes to mind for some reason.
We need clarification of how voting would affect eligibility to be paid out by the mythical GEIA provision fund.
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Post by jevans4949 on Aug 14, 2018 12:11:57 GMT
snowmobile hits the nail on the head. There has been no progress on making use of the leased site, and the borrower is trying to sell the hardware. I imagine that if anyone wanted that land, they would have put in some sort of bid to buy the lease off the borrower already.
I voted B. I only have £100 in this via MLA, which I have written off in my mind some time ago. Sorry about GEIA investors.
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daveb4
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Post by daveb4 on Aug 14, 2018 12:36:44 GMT
Although I understand the vote, I am surprised we have been asked? I must seriously be missing something. I presume they have been asked so they have to put it to the vote.
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Post by peterst on Aug 14, 2018 12:52:23 GMT
I can't imagine any potential new operator would wish to pay a premium for the site, so cannot see any point in preserving the lease. Better the few pennies that may be netted from selling the turbine for parts go to the existing lenders, rather than paying the rent.
I would really like to know what happened to the loan proceeds, as many things that it was supposed to be used for never occurred. Rather naively I imagined that the loan worked in the same way as property development loans, i.e funds were paid out when a monitoring surveyor said a stage payment was due.
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 14, 2018 14:27:46 GMT
I can't imagine any potential new operator would wish to pay a premium for the site, so cannot see any point in preserving the lease. Better the few pennies that may be netted from selling the turbine for parts go to the existing lenders, rather than paying the rent. I would really like to know what happened to the loan proceeds, as many things that it was supposed to be used for never occurred. Rather naively I imagined that the loan worked in the same way as property development loans, i.e funds were paid out when a monitoring surveyor said a stage payment was due. Well we have been told that if the Landlord terminates the lease, the security could be rendered "valueless". Ok, it may have zero value anyway, but if the info is to be believed, then it will definitely be valueless without the lease. So I'm going to (grudgingly) vote in favour, unless anyone can persuade me otherwise in the next 24 hours. Regarding "what has happened to the loan proceeds" , all I can say is "good question". I assume they have all been soaked up in buying the turbine (which currently sits in a shed) , and in the preparatory work on the site. If I'm not mistaken, this loan is turning into an absolute train wreck. Very few P2P loans are worth precisely zero , but this looks like it could well be a contender. Mods - please feel free to move this discussion if appropriate - thanks.
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dc848
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Post by dc848 on Aug 14, 2018 14:48:24 GMT
Very few P2P loans are worth precisely zero , but this looks like it could well be a contender. Keep paying rent to the only winner in this debacle, I can see it being worth even less than zero !!
Much as I don't like the manipulation, I voted B as I reckon its the cheapest option overall.
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 14, 2018 15:00:54 GMT
Very few P2P loans are worth precisely zero , but this looks like it could well be a contender. Keep paying rent to the only winner in this debacle, I can see it being worth even less than zero !!
Much as I don't like the manipulation, I voted B as I reckon its the cheapest option overall.
Well actually that strikes me as a possible glimmer of hope after all and here's why (as mentioned on the other thread - mods ??) : AC are prepared to lend their own funds to pay the rent. Surely they would only do this if they themselves believed there was still some value in the loan ?? So personally I would still vote "yes".
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Post by jevans4949 on Aug 14, 2018 16:43:09 GMT
Keep paying rent to the only winner in this debacle, I can see it being worth even less than zero !!
Much as I don't like the manipulation, I voted B as I reckon its the cheapest option overall.
Well actually that strikes me as a possible glimmer of hope after all and here's why (as mentioned on the other thread - mods ??) : AC are prepared to lend their own funds to pay the rent. Surely they would only do this if they themselves believed there was still some value in the loan ?? So personally I would still vote "yes". Presumably AC would only lend with a(nother) charge against the assets. Where would it rank vis-a-vis us punters? No such thing as a free lunch!
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 14, 2018 17:00:36 GMT
Well actually that strikes me as a possible glimmer of hope after all and here's why (as mentioned on the other thread - mods ??) : AC are prepared to lend their own funds to pay the rent. Surely they would only do this if they themselves believed there was still some value in the loan ?? So personally I would still vote "yes". Presumably AC would only lend with a(nother) charge against the assets. Where would it rank vis-a-vis us punters? No such thing as a free lunch! Well there is no mention of this ? Surely , as it's being put to the vote, AC would be duty-bound to declare such an interest. My view is that AC think there is still value in this , and that this is the best way to maximize that value. Obviously whatever AC lend will take priority and be repaid ahead of any other lenders so they probably also see the risk as minimal.
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Post by bikeman on Aug 14, 2018 17:55:54 GMT
The phrase 'throwing good money after bad' comes to mind for some reason. We need clarification of how voting would affect eligibility to be paid out by the mythical GEIA provision fund. With any normal company I would assume there is no implication because the voting information provided doesn't make clear the consequences. BUT this is Assetz Capital and I wouldn't put it past them to use the vote to exclude a proportion of investors from any potential PF payout. I see no reason to agree to pay the landlord at the expense of anything I might get back from this badly managed loan.
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 14, 2018 18:08:55 GMT
The phrase 'throwing good money after bad' comes to mind for some reason. We need clarification of how voting would affect eligibility to be paid out by the mythical GEIA provision fund. With any normal company I would assume there is no implication because the voting information provided doesn't make clear the consequences. BUT this is Assetz Capital and I wouldn't put it past them to use the vote to exclude a proportion of investors from any potential PF payout. I see no reason to agree to pay the landlord at the expense of anything I might get back from this badly managed loan. OK, well it's your call, but AC have made it clear that if the Landlord terminates the lease, the security could be rendered "valueless" (to use AC's own word). I think it's in the best interests of lenders to vote "yes", in the hope of getting something back. As I outlined in the pink pages, as per the #437 update on 01/06/2017 , the monitoring surveyor reckons the loss of FIT will knock about 400k off the value. If that's even close to being correct, then there is definitely still value in the operation, and possibly quite a bit. I reckon a "yes" vote will offer us the best chance of maximizing that value.
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Post by bikeman on Aug 14, 2018 19:30:22 GMT
With any normal company I would assume there is no implication because the voting information provided doesn't make clear the consequences. BUT this is Assetz Capital and I wouldn't put it past them to use the vote to exclude a proportion of investors from any potential PF payout. I see no reason to agree to pay the landlord at the expense of anything I might get back from this badly managed loan. OK, well it's your call, but AC have made it clear that if the Landlord terminates the lease, the security could be rendered "valueless" (to use AC's own word). I think it's in the best interests of lenders to vote "yes", in the hope of getting something back. As I outlined in the pink pages, as per the #437 update on 01/06/2017 , the monitoring surveyor reckons the loss of FIT will knock about 400k off the value. If that's even close to being correct, then there is definitely still value in the operation, and possibly quite a bit. I reckon a "yes" vote will offer us the best chance of maximizing that value. What value? it's an empty field, I don't see why we would even consider continuing to pay the lease - unless of course it is another ploy by AC to delay declaring this loan a loss.
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lobster
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Post by lobster on Aug 14, 2018 21:36:27 GMT
What value? it's an empty field, I don't see why we would even consider continuing to pay the lease - unless of course it is another ploy by AC to delay declaring this loan a loss. Well as with any wind turbine, there is value to be derived from erecting the turbine in a suitable location and selling the generated electricity to the grid, hopefully for at least 20 years and possibly a lot longer It's just that in this case it won't be possible to benefit from the government FIT tariff, which as mentioned above, reduces value of the whole security by about 400k (according to the monitoring surveyor). Also it's not exactly "an empty field" because plenty of preparatory work has already taken place - although admittedly it's not clear exactly what. Furthermore this "empty field" was presumably carefully chosen as being a good location for a turbine with regard to average wind speeds and other environmental considerations.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Aug 15, 2018 13:08:24 GMT
One question I would like to know relating to these loans is for the turbine site that are incomplete is there any money left in the companies (and if not where has it gone).
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