SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Aug 27, 2018 19:08:36 GMT
They charged headlong into property lending
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Aug 27, 2018 19:10:32 GMT
Unless you make an overall loss (i.e. capital loss >interest) returns outside an IFISA will never be higher than those inside an IFISA. And making a capital loss can never make your return 'better' - it just makes the loss less bad. You have to take your portfolio as a whole. Not an individual investment then your overall return will be better than not being able to offset FISA losses. As all my loans are in FISA and say I make £15-20k a year Most losses are covered by not having to pay the Tax were the investments in main account No, because in an IFISA you have in effect already offset tax against all your loans. If you have those loans outside an IFISA you start with no tax offset. You can't have a higher return outside the IFISA if there is a positive return, whether you look at individual investments or your portfolio as a whole. Example I invest £10,000 inside an IFISA and make 10% (£1000), but 5% capital loss (£500). Total return? £500. For a lower rate tax payer, I invest £10,00 outside an IFISA, and make 10% minus 20% tax (£800). The 5% capital loss reduces my return to £300. I can claim 20% of the £500 loss against tax (£100). So my total return is £400. For a higher rate tax payer, I invest £10,00 outside an IFISA, and make 10% minus 40% tax (£600). The 5% capital loss reduces my return to £100. I can claim 40% of the £500 loss against tax (£200). So my total return is £300. You can try all permutations, but as long as your total interest from all P2P is more than your total losses, you are always better off within an IFISA, and making a capital loss will never make you better off.
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greenslime
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Post by greenslime on Aug 27, 2018 19:59:48 GMT
They charged headlong into property lending Ta - I did wonder if that was it. I guess if you want to grow quickly then bling and cars don't really do it.
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arby
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Post by arby on Aug 27, 2018 20:16:24 GMT
They charged headlong into property lending Ta - I did wonder if that was it. I guess if you want to grow quickly then bling and cars don't really do it. And top line is what brings in the big money. It takes a lot of watches to lend £1m, but it's easily done with just an empty field with outline planning permission...
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adrian77
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Post by adrian77 on Aug 27, 2018 21:25:37 GMT
In the short term brings in loadsa money for FS but for the lenders in the longer term ? Time will tell...
Interesting to see just how Lytham St Annes, Suffolk snow dome etc actually pan out.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Aug 27, 2018 23:44:39 GMT
You have to take your portfolio as a whole. Not an individual investment then your overall return will be better than not being able to offset FISA losses. As all my loans are in FISA and say I make £15-20k a year Most losses are covered by not having to pay the Tax were the investments in main account No, because in an IFISA you have in effect already offset tax against all your loans. If you have those loans outside an IFISA you start with no tax offset. You can't have a higher return outside the IFISA if there is a positive return, whether you look at individual investments or your portfolio as a whole. Example I invest £10,000 inside an IFISA and make 10% (£1000), but 5% capital loss (£500). Total return? £500. For a lower rate tax payer, I invest £10,00 outside an IFISA, and make 10% minus 20% tax (£800). The 5% capital loss reduces my return to £300. I can claim 20% of the £500 loss against tax (£100). So my total return is £400. For a higher rate tax payer, I invest £10,00 outside an IFISA, and make 10% minus 40% tax (£600). The 5% capital loss reduces my return to £100. I can claim 40% of the £500 loss against tax (£200). So my total return is £300. You can try all permutations, but as long as your total interest from all P2P is more than your total losses, you are always better off within an IFISA, and making a capital loss will never make you better off. Hi in those scenarios you would not be due tax as interest would be within the £1000 interest allowances for savings so loss could not be offset on p2p interest I do however see your point that’s why everything goes into FISA . Better loosing 5% of non taxable sum than 5% on a taxable sum with little back . My original error thanks.
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mjc
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Post by mjc on Aug 28, 2018 6:13:28 GMT
However money lost from an ISA can not be replaced (above the annual allowance) which could mean higher tax liability year after year. So another fact to factor into comparing the IFISA v Main account losses.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 31, 2018 7:08:57 GMT
Thanks. Very useful. I think for a more truthful measure of the loan performance it should look at a breakdown of: - total capital lent - total capital recovered - total interest earned - real interest rate (capital lent / capital recovered + interest) So it wouldn't matter if they renew the loan million times, because all that matters then would be the total capital amount recovered + interest. It would be similar to their stats page but in a more impartial way: www.fundingsecure.com/invest-with-us/loan-statisticsI would be interested to know what would be the real interest rate when the non performing loan are taken into consideration! |
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littleoldlady
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Running down all platforms due to age
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 31, 2018 7:28:39 GMT
Thanks. Very useful. I think for a more truthful measure of the loan performance it should look at a breakdown of: - total capital lent - total capital recovered - total interest earned - real interest rate (capital lent / capital recovered + interest) So it wouldn't matter if they renew the loan million times, because all that matters then would be the total capital amount recovered + interest. It would be similar to their stats page but in a more impartial way: www.fundingsecure.com/invest-with-us/loan-statisticsI would be interested to know what would be the real interest rate when the non performing loan are taken into consideration! FS could do this calculation for their interest earned, but we are more concerned with our interest, and this will be different for each lender. However I suppose they could work out a figure for a hypothetical investor who took say 1% of every loan. Another snag is non performing loans where the final haircut will not be known for some time. The real figure you are looking for cannot be calculated until the end of the platform - but that might not be far off.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 31, 2018 11:56:56 GMT
Thanks. Very useful. I think for a more truthful measure of the loan performance it should look at a breakdown of: - total capital lent - total capital recovered - total interest earned - real interest rate (capital lent / capital recovered + interest) So it wouldn't matter if they renew the loan million times, because all that matters then would be the total capital amount recovered + interest. It would be similar to their stats page but in a more impartial way: www.fundingsecure.com/invest-with-us/loan-statisticsI would be interested to know what would be the real interest rate when the non performing loan are taken into consideration! FS could do this calculation for their interest earned, but we are more concerned with our interest, and this will be different for each lender. However I suppose they could work out a figure for a hypothetical investor who took say 1% of every loan. Another snag is non performing loans where the final haircut will not be known for some time. The real figure you are looking for cannot be calculated until the end of the platform - but that might not be far off. When you go into each loan detail you can see written the capital returned and interest earned. That number could be used for a comprehensive overview of the real interest rate. However it's not on the list and its not possible to download a CSV. Probably need a script or something to fetch this information but I m no développer.
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Post by dan1 on Aug 31, 2018 20:32:57 GMT
FS could do this calculation for their interest earned, but we are more concerned with our interest, and this will be different for each lender. However I suppose they could work out a figure for a hypothetical investor who took say 1% of every loan. Another snag is non performing loans where the final haircut will not be known for some time. The real figure you are looking for cannot be calculated until the end of the platform - but that might not be far off. When you go into each loan detail you can see written the capital returned and interest earned. That number could be used for a comprehensive overview of the real interest rate. However it's not on the list and its not possible to download a CSV. Probably need a script or something to fetch this information but I m no développer. I've been looking at the loan details but some of it is "dirty" and needs to be cleaned before it can be used. For example, take 1170142875 Actual end 01/01/1970 Loan active for -16577 days Actual Return 360.1% pa Another example, 8589397612 Loan Amount £540,000.00 Capital repaid £89,650.00 Actual Return -83.2% pa A massive loss? No, the loan was cancelled (but it's marked as completed) before it filled and 30 days interest was paid to investors who had placed bids.
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Aug 31, 2018 22:56:05 GMT
When you go into each loan detail you can see written the capital returned and interest earned. That number could be used for a comprehensive overview of the real interest rate. However it's not on the list and its not possible to download a CSV. Probably need a script or something to fetch this information but I m no développer. I've been looking at the loan details but some of it is "dirty" and needs to be cleaned before it can be used. For example, take 1170142875 Actual end 01/01/1970 Loan active for -16577 days Actual Return 360.1% pa Another example, 8589397612 Loan Amount £540,000.00 Capital repaid £89,650.00 Actual Return -83.2% pa A massive loss? No, the loan was cancelled (but it's marked as completed) before it filled and 30 days interest was paid to investors who had placed bids. Agree. Hopefully there aren't that many messy loan. And outlier should be quite easy to spot such as this one when the loan is supposed to end on 1970! If anyone know how to create a script to pull that data, I'm happy to do the analysis!
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Post by dan1 on Sept 10, 2018 21:26:46 GMT
The chart below shows the cumulative actual return for Completed Loans only. The blue trace is calculated from the interest paid, which includes loan bonuses and additional returns believed to be paid to the likes of BHs, syndicates, institutional lenders etc. The red trace is calculated from the actual loan rate (loan amount * interest rate * loan duration / 365) after allowing for the minimum 30 days interest.  Notable reductions in actual rate... Aug 17 - boatyard Oct 17 - Wind Turbine Apr 18 - castle lodge & riding school Aug 18 - Knaresborough The BH premium is approximately 1.2%. |
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Sept 10, 2018 23:26:25 GMT
Thank you. That looks actually quite good and almost make me want to invest in a fundingsecure tracker lol
Any chance to include the 6 months+ late loans for a better picture? It does almost looks too good to be true!!
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technik
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Post by technik on Sept 11, 2018 11:00:14 GMT
Seems like a fantastic historical reference, thanks for putting it together!
And yes, does make it look pretty good, depending whether you are of the opinion it is better to have a few massive loan failures to cause the big drops, or lots of smaller ones for a more steady profile across the platform. But as with all these things, think most would agree historic FS performance has been good, it's whether the current pending resolutions and the current slow grind are actually resolved.
Will be a useful chart to have updated as time goes by. FS will need to perform very well in recoveries on all the outstanding difficult loans that have been pushed into the future, if they don't want this chart to see a continued decline in the overall return.
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