benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 28, 2018 12:20:21 GMT
The update is out. In short, expect a 4 weeks valuation, 5 days to change your mind, mega conversion, a new website, getting a new mortgage.... And dividend from rent collected won't be paid until further notice. :-(
*edited
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Aug 28, 2018 13:09:28 GMT
One thing that occurs to me - once this conversion happens, will that be the end of the "Property Moose" brand as a platform?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 28, 2018 14:03:22 GMT
This is completely unique. I thought the investment is diversified but it appears not anymore.
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Post by sayyestocress on Aug 28, 2018 14:28:48 GMT
And dividend from rent won't be paid. Well, technically it is being paid, but in shares of the mega fund rather than anything useful in the short term... That's assuming there is any rent to pay;didn't they evict most of the properties thinking they actually be able to sell them?
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Post by sayyestocress on Aug 28, 2018 14:31:32 GMT
Does anyone else feel that your entire investment in Property Moose is in default and that there is a long 5 year plus recovery period ahead? No but it does feel like it's incredibly illiquid, outside of my control/influence and worth notably less than I paid for it...
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 28, 2018 14:40:03 GMT
I am more interested to know property moose investors feel on Crowdcube.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 29, 2018 8:01:13 GMT
No dividend? Is this a joke?
This is absolutely the worst investment I've ever made.
I'm totally disgusted.
THIS IS A DISGRACE
Yep. I’ll take what I can get and leave PM forever. Good luck to those who remain in this unlisted, illiquid REIT which I am certain will be extremely opaque with eye watering hidden charges. Also, the team have a track record of incompetence, doing much worse than even the most clueless, novice property investor. Just waiting to find out how ridiculous the 4 week valuations are now. Hopefully at least the one nice property Daniel house will be ok
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pom
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Post by pom on Aug 29, 2018 10:20:58 GMT
No dividend? Is this a joke?
This is absolutely the worst investment I've ever made.
I'm totally disgusted. I signed up based on monthly distributions of rent. Then PM made it quarterly. And now "it is expected that full distributions will start again in Q1 2019". Apparently, "you will not miss out" due to this. I am missing out because I need my rental distributions NOW, not "expected in Q1 2019".
THIS IS A DISGRACE
Really? Perhaps I could interest you in my House Crowd BTLs then.... Whilst none of us could have predicted all these twists and turns when we first invested, BTL was never going to be reliably liquid nor guaranteed to pay out returns at expected times, so if you need your rental distributions NOW then frankly you should never have invested in the first place. And getting all disgusted about it is not going to achieve anything. Yeah the original PM model turned out to be unscalable. Properties were too small/cheap and costs too high. And they reduced the entry point too low so they ended up with a lot of people cheesed off over a very small proportion of the shares further pushing up costs. Personally I think they should have done this sooner rather than try to sell everything off first, but hey. Now they'll be able to manage the properties more effectively without having to run polls every 5 mins, benefit from economies of scale from not having to deal with each one more individually, weed out the poor performers without having to wait on polls and add better ones (ditto). And the PM big hitters will be quite relaxed with this assuming they were true BHs and not overinvested MHs anyway - they'll just crystallise the loss for use now or later and hang tight until things improve, which it almost certainly will in time. And since I didn't overinvest generally and so am in no rush for the cash that's what I'm going to do too. carolus - I'd guess the intention is this stuff will move (talk of new website etc) and PM will continue with loans
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 29, 2018 10:47:05 GMT
pom it's true none of us have predicted this. I was hoping enthusiastic about the PM's exit strategy in the beginning of 2018, ie. successfulily selling the END of term SPVs and turning them into profits. Even I have diversified my investment in PM, the way the platform is turning make some of us feel the uncertainty. I personally like facts and figures, but what PM actually doing is delaying updates, rentals income figures, SPV costs figures, debt figures, viewing figures. We have no idea how this entire PM SPVs are actually performing. I wish the fix could be done sooner or later.
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Aug 29, 2018 19:22:12 GMT
No dividend? Is this a joke?
This is absolutely the worst investment I've ever made.
I'm totally disgusted. I signed up based on monthly distributions of rent. Then PM made it quarterly. And now "it is expected that full distributions will start again in Q1 2019". Apparently, "you will not miss out" due to this. I am missing out because I need my rental distributions NOW, not "expected in Q1 2019".
THIS IS A DISGRACE
Really? Perhaps I could interest you in my House Crowd BTLs then.... Whilst none of us could have predicted all these twists and turns when we first invested, BTL was never going to be reliably liquid nor guaranteed to pay out returns at expected times, so if you need your rental distributions NOW then frankly you should never have invested in the first place. And getting all disgusted about it is not going to achieve anything. Yeah the original PM model turned out to be unscalable. Properties were too small/cheap and costs too high. And they reduced the entry point too low so they ended up with a lot of people cheesed off over a very small proportion of the shares further pushing up costs. Personally I think they should have done this sooner rather than try to sell everything off first, but hey. Now they'll be able to manage the properties more effectively without having to run polls every 5 mins, benefit from economies of scale from not having to deal with each one more individually, weed out the poor performers without having to wait on polls and add better ones (ditto). And the PM big hitters will be quite relaxed with this assuming they were true BHs and not overinvested MHs anyway - they'll just crystallise the loss for use now or later and hang tight until things improve, which it almost certainly will in time. And since I didn't overinvest generally and so am in no rush for the cash that's what I'm going to do too. carolus - I'd guess the intention is this stuff will move (talk of new website etc) and PM will continue with loans I have 55k with PM and I want out just because I don’t trust them to manage a fart in a paper bag. If property partner were buying and running the SPV I’d be okay with it but there is just something smelly about this lot.
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Post by cinemacker on Sept 4, 2018 20:53:54 GMT
This is disturbing news. Luckily I've found this forum for finding out anything more than PM are willing to share. I'm into 59 investments totalling 10.3k. I haven't had a message or email from PM since end of May and they haven't got the decency to reply to my enquiry. I didn't sign up for the stunts they're pulling now. I invested in separate ring-fenced SPV's. Sometimes I paid more than £10 per share on the secondary market (because that's what they valued them at) so I lost out as soon as they dropped their valuations. The costs have always been dubious, so long as they cream off their management fees. Doubt I'll get my money back. As far as I'm concerned, they've broken their contract and should be hauled to the financial ombudsman.
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Post by sayyestocress on Sept 5, 2018 7:53:33 GMT
This is disturbing news. Luckily I've found this forum for finding out anything more than PM are willing to share. I'm into 59 investments totalling 10.3k. I haven't had a message or email from PM since end of May and they haven't got the decency to reply to my enquiry. I didn't sign up for the stunts they're pulling now. I invested in separate ring-fenced SPV's. Sometimes I paid more than £10 per share on the secondary market (because that's what they valued them at) so I lost out as soon as they dropped their valuations. The costs have always been dubious, so long as they cream off their management fees. Doubt I'll get my money back. As far as I'm concerned, they've broken their contract and should be hauled to the financial ombudsman. I don't think things are as bad as never getting any of our money back. We're supposed to have the opportunity to leave with the upcoming mortgaging and property sales (if required) in the mega SPV; it's just a question of when this will happen (not quickly based on my PM experience thus far) and how much our investment can be exited for (I'm guessing half of what was paid for it). I pretty much agree with everything else though. Regarding the ombudsman and things turning out not being what you signed up for, I suspect they'd defend themselves with the vote system and that one of the major risks of crowd funding is that what you want isn't always going to be what the majority want, so you can be at the mercy of the crowd and along for the ride with little to no control.
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Post by cinemacker on Sept 5, 2018 21:01:19 GMT
To clarify, I should have said 'doubt I'll get the value of my investments back'. I can see most investors taking a hit on the way this appears to be going. I am concerned that we won't have the opportunity to exit as in my experience I never received one message about previous exit votes and PM are ignoring my messages on their website now. The whole thing is a headache, being kept in the dark while PM are still making their money despite our lack of dividends and lower property valuations. After all, it's the investors that stumped up the cash for the properties that we are now being locked out of.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 5, 2018 21:15:28 GMT
I was lured by the 'opportunity' by PM, it seems it is interpreted differently.
Opportunity to invest, opportunity to receive quarterly rental income, opportunities to vote, opportunity to share profit.
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Post by baronhardup on Sept 8, 2018 12:41:44 GMT
No value left in that brand name anyhow. No rent to be paid this quarter, Great! Does anyone else feel that your entire investment in Property Moose is in default and that there is a long 5 year plus recovery period ahead? Yes, I do. I also think they have effectively taken money under false pretenses. Certainly, the proposition that I signed up to is now unrecognisable. Furthermore, I cannot get my money out. Is that not theft?
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