spockie
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Post by spockie on Sept 15, 2014 16:45:45 GMT
Just opened. 36 months @ 10%.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 15, 2014 23:15:04 GMT
It seems that we can expect a few more from this same company, perhaps in a matter of weeks.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 16, 2014 7:39:44 GMT
Thank you for the heads up. It's the first wind turbine I've seen from Ludgate, and the first in Northern Ireland too.
What do people think about the yield? 10% is a small premium to other recent wind farm offers, but:
- Is Northern Ireland more risky?
- The loan is interest only, unlike CU's offers which have all had a small amount of amortisation. This increases the refinancing risk.
- The turbine is "remanufactured", not new.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Sept 16, 2014 8:36:09 GMT
Thank you for the heads up. It's the first wind turbine I've seen from Ludgate, and the first in Northern Ireland too. What do people think about the yield? 10% is a small premium to other recent wind farm offers, but: - Is Northern Ireland more risky? - The loan is interest only, unlike CU's offers which have all had a small amount of amortisation. This increases the refinancing risk. - The turbine is "remanufactured", not new. Bit curious about your on the remanufactured (RM) nature of this turbine. I am aware that it is more difficult to ensure RM turbines like this due to the fragility of the gearboxes but are there other reasons that you are aware of?
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 16, 2014 8:42:37 GMT
Without going thru' all the previous WT deals this one seems the best deal for the 'farmer' as he gets a 20% cut of the income. I think I saw atleast one other deal where the freeholder/Landlord got 10%. I may go and check which deals they were.
With the re-manufactured(?) bit; the valuation says something like the tower, blades and housings are re-used but all gubbins are new, but no mention of gear box from memory. Several other deal we've had are also re-cons. The odd bit that I noticed that's only one years warranty other re-con warranties have been two years and if brand new five years. But I don't think we've dealt with the WT maker before (a Dutch co.) so this may just be their policy. I should think there's insurance beyond the first yr to cover us.
IN EDIT Re-cons - Burnley, Carmarthenshire & Falmouth (we may've had others)
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Sept 16, 2014 15:58:01 GMT
Bit curious about your on the remanufactured (RM) nature of this turbine. I am aware that it is more difficult to ensure RM turbines like this due to the fragility of the gearboxes but are there other reasons that you are aware of? No special knowledge at all. It just makes me a bit nervous. Ton ⓉⓞⓃ, I'd missed that others have been re-cons.
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Post by batchoy on Sept 16, 2014 16:46:22 GMT
Bit curious about your on the remanufactured (RM) nature of this turbine. I am aware that it is more difficult to ensure RM turbines like this due to the fragility of the gearboxes but are there other reasons that you are aware of? No special knowledge at all. It just makes me a bit nervous. Ton ⓉⓞⓃ, I'd missed that others have been re-cons. One has to wonder why they have been decommissioned for them then to be available to be re-manufactured.
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gnasher
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Post by gnasher on Sept 17, 2014 6:30:32 GMT
No special knowledge at all. It just makes me a bit nervous. Ton ⓉⓞⓃ, I'd missed that others have been re-cons. One has to wonder why they have been decommissioned for them then to be available to be re-manufactured. I imagine that in their original form they have come to the end of their design life, perhaps 10 to 15 years? There is a wind farm near me where all the turbines are being replaced after that sort of period, with new bigger ones. In cases like this what should happen to the old ones? Reconditioning and redeploying seems like the obvious option. But will they be more problematic than new ones? your guess is as good as mine.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Sept 17, 2014 9:26:06 GMT
Generally the larger the turbine the better the economics, and turbine sizes have steady grown from 25kW in the early 1970s to up to 6MW today. The larger turbines are taller to better catch higher faster wind and also have a better economy of scale.
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koba
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Post by koba on Sept 17, 2014 12:56:13 GMT
Although I generally take a small slice of each wind turbine, I think I may sit this one out. Nothing particular just a cumulation of little niggles.
(i) Not pre-accredited with Ofgem.
(ii) Inexperienced developer with no apparent background in the area
(iii) Insurance cover not detailed. IP mentions "insurance as per details above" with no details given
(iv) Not my favourite sponsor
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 17, 2014 15:34:20 GMT
Although I generally take a small slice of each wind turbine, I think I may sit this one out. Nothing particular just a cumulation of little niggles. (i) Not pre-accredited with Ofgem. (ii) Inexperienced developer with no apparent background in the area (iii) Insurance cover not detailed. IP mentions "insurance as per details above" with no details given (iv) Not my favourite sponsor Also (v) No capital payment during the term of the loan. So whereas the other projects need to refinance 85% of the initial amount borrowed, this one is going to need to refinance 100% of that.
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Sept 17, 2014 16:15:28 GMT
Although I generally take a small slice of each wind turbine, I think I may sit this one out. Nothing particular just a cumulation of little niggles. (i) Not pre-accredited with Ofgem. (ii) Inexperienced developer with no apparent background in the area (iii) Insurance cover not detailed. IP mentions "insurance as per details above" with no details given (iv) Not my favourite sponsor Also (v) No capital payment during the term of the loan. So whereas the other projects need to refinance 85% of the initial amount borrowed, this one is going to need to refinance 100% of that. I notice that there is very little interest, bidding wise, so perhaps it won't fly. It's good for an occasional loan to fail to fill, as it means the underwriter and lender due diligence is working.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Sept 17, 2014 17:23:45 GMT
But with re-financing; ltv should be at or below 60%, and if they've underestimated the wind it could be even better. I hope we get to find out, after it's been making leccy for a year, how much money it's really making and not just valuations/estimates.
With this deal flying or not; do the underwriters look at us and think, "Will I be able to sell this on or no?" In other words I think there's an element of If you think it will fly then it will and if you don't think it will fly then that will stop it.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Sept 17, 2014 21:34:50 GMT
Also (v) No capital payment during the term of the loan. So whereas the other projects need to refinance 85% of the initial amount borrowed, this one is going to need to refinance 100% of that. I notice that there is very little interest, bidding wise, so perhaps it won't fly. It's good for an occasional loan to fail to fill, as it means the underwriter and lender due diligence is working. Most AC loans these days seem to be generating little interest, with lenders seeming to be preferring to wait until the loan appears in the Aftermarket. The live Fal***** WT auction has less than two days to run and is only 7% funded by non-underwriters. And the Mon***** WT loan that drew down today is showing 96% still held by underwriters. It's going to take the underwriters some considerable time to sell all their holdings. Once Ang*****, Hac****, Epp***, Ips****, and S Man******* settle, of course, lenders will have lots of funds to reinvest, so things could look very different. There's probably also a bit of hesitation to bid caused by lenders holding back until they can see what the new AC website/system is going to be like.
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