ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Mar 26, 2019 10:37:47 GMT
stuartassetzcapital / chris , now that there is sustained, widespread availability of discounted underwriter holdings across 50+ different AC loans, can you PLEASE add the oft-requested option to filter the "Browse Loans" page by % Discount? It's ludicrous that MLIA lenders still have to cross-refer from an offline forum crib-sheet (or else manually check hundreds of individual loans) to find those loans with discounted SM availability. Also is the upgrade (to allow faster processing) near? It is frustrating putting orders in for discounted parts, and then having to wait for 15+ hours, to see if successful, and then try the next one... Agreed that the promised performance upgrade would be handy, though I can't say I'm really bothered about it. Double agree about being able to filter on discount. If there are a few parts that you wouldn't mind having some of, why not put in a bid on all of them? [By which I mean, if you have X to invest, bid X on each one] ... and then take whichever one you're given. It's one of the features of AC that I really like - the ability to bid on way more parts than you actually have funds to buy right now.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Mar 26, 2019 11:03:31 GMT
... It is frustrating putting orders in for discounted parts, and then having to wait for 15+ hours, to see if successful, and then try the next one... Not necessary - you can just put orders in for both/all loans of interest, and whichever gets processed first will succeed until/unless you run out of money.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 26, 2019 11:09:40 GMT
stuartassetzcapital / chris , now that there is sustained, widespread availability of discounted underwriter holdings across 50+ different AC loans, can you PLEASE add the oft-requested option to filter the "Browse Loans" page by % Discount? It's ludicrous that MLIA lenders still have to cross-refer from an offline forum crib-sheet (or else manually check hundreds of individual loans) to find those loans with discounted SM availability. Also is the upgrade (to allow faster processing) near? It is frustrating putting orders in for discounted parts, and then having to wait for 15+ hours, to see if successful, and then try the next one... Faster processing would be of great benefit to everyone. For discounted loan parts though, surely it's possible just to bypass the matching process altogether? The automated accounts can't sell at a discount so they're taken out of the equation and we know they're being sold through someones MLA. If someone puts a manual bid in to buy some of these parts why cant it just match straight away? It would be a huge benefit to everyone, increase liquidity and lead to more funds flowing onto the platform.
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Post by chris on Mar 26, 2019 11:49:54 GMT
Also is the upgrade (to allow faster processing) near? It is frustrating putting orders in for discounted parts, and then having to wait for 15+ hours, to see if successful, and then try the next one... Faster processing would be of great benefit to everyone. For discounted loan parts though, surely it's possible just to bypass the matching process altogether? The automated accounts can't sell at a discount so they're taken out of the equation and we know they're being sold through someones MLA. If someone puts a manual bid in to buy some of these parts why cant it just match straight away? It would be a huge benefit to everyone, increase liquidity and lead to more funds flowing onto the platform. The automated accounts do buy at a discount, they just don't sell at a discount. It's not as easy as that unfortunately.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 26, 2019 12:07:14 GMT
Faster processing would be of great benefit to everyone. For discounted loan parts though, surely it's possible just to bypass the matching process altogether? The automated accounts can't sell at a discount so they're taken out of the equation and we know they're being sold through someones MLA. If someone puts a manual bid in to buy some of these parts why cant it just match straight away? It would be a huge benefit to everyone, increase liquidity and lead to more funds flowing onto the platform. The automated accounts do buy at a discount, they just don't sell at a discount. It's not as easy as that unfortunately. Yes, true but the access accounts very rarely buy (if at all) on the SM and the other accounts are tiny in comparison to what else is going on. Why generate all this annoyance and frustration for the sake of that? Discounts are primarily an issue for the MLA. Yes some investors in the GBBA may miss out on a really tiny amount of discount that they probably wouldn't ever be aware of anyway. Even then, it's highly unlikely that they would, they would still participate in the usual matching sweep which includes discounted loans. It's not as if all these discounts are being snapped up instantly. Giving users of the MLA first dibs on them does not undermine the spirit of the platform. It is comforting for investors if they know they can offer a reasonable discount and things will sell quickly. Right now they have to wait up to 24 hours to see what happens. That does not make a happy market.
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Post by dan1 on Mar 26, 2019 12:26:18 GMT
chris - I'm going to go against the grain here and say I like the matching algorithm just the way it is. My guess is that there are a fair few people who think likewise but their voice would probably be drowned out in this thread. I've migrated from high yield platforms with secondary markets where a loan perceived as good value can be snapped up in seconds via bots or faster finger first, I'm thinking of Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing, FundingSecure, Ablrate, even Unbolted in the good old days. I quite openly enjoyed those times and my initial foray into AC was hit with frustration but now I've seen the light with the AC matching algorithm in place of a (near-)instantaneous secondary market, it's more equitable IMO. It gives the little guys & gals a chance to set instructions on loans at good value by looking once a day, not every 5 minutes. I guess what I'm saying is that there are (sometimes unintended) consequences of changes like speeding up the matching algorithm. Of course, I'd welcome a filter for discounted loans.
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victors
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Post by victors on Mar 26, 2019 12:51:59 GMT
Agree it is ridiculous that AC cannot put a filter on showing discount %.
It almost seems that AC don't want lenders to be aware of the discounts available.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Mar 26, 2019 12:52:02 GMT
chris - I'm going to go against the grain here and say I like the matching algorithm just the way it is. My guess is that there are a fair few people who think likewise but their voice would probably be drowned out in this thread. I've migrated from high yield platforms with secondary markets where a loan perceived as good value can be snapped up in seconds via bots or faster finger first, I'm thinking of Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing, FundingSecure, Ablrate, even Unbolted in the good old days. I quite openly enjoyed those times and my initial foray into AC was hit with frustration but now I've seen the light with the AC matching algorithm in place of a (near-)instantaneous secondary market, it's more equitable IMO. It gives the little guys & gals a chance to set instructions on loans at good value by looking once a day, not every 5 minutes. I guess what I'm saying is that there are (sometimes unintended) consequences of changes like speeding up the matching algorithm. Of course, I'd welcome a filter for discounted loans. I think most of what is good about AC would be preserved, except that instead of updating each loan every 15-24 hours the update would happen every hour or more often. That would favour those who put buy orders (perhaps at a discount) in advance rather than notice that there is a discount and react. Of course your point of view is interesting and you shouldn't feel drowned out. I happen not to like a system that appears to be real time, but is in effect far from it.
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Post by hammertime on Mar 26, 2019 12:54:39 GMT
It would be far to time consuming to do it every hour.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 26, 2019 12:59:26 GMT
chris - I'm going to go against the grain here and say I like the matching algorithm just the way it is. My guess is that there are a fair few people who think likewise but their voice would probably be drowned out in this thread. I've migrated from high yield platforms with secondary markets where a loan perceived as good value can be snapped up in seconds via bots or faster finger first, I'm thinking of Lendy, Collateral, MoneyThing, FundingSecure, Ablrate, even Unbolted in the good old days. I quite openly enjoyed those times and my initial foray into AC was hit with frustration but now I've seen the light with the AC matching algorithm in place of a (near-)instantaneous secondary market, it's more equitable IMO. It gives the little guys & gals a chance to set instructions on loans at good value by looking once a day, not every 5 minutes. I guess what I'm saying is that there are (sometimes unintended) consequences of changes like speeding up the matching algorithm. Of course, I'd welcome a filter for discounted loans. I'm not sure Chris will be too happy having spent months working on speeding up the matching that people now say they want it to remain slow! AC has a different model to most of the named platforms as you can put bids and offers in, the others can't. ABL allows this and has instant matching and doesn't have an issue with bots as it has a proper market (ie there's a bid and an offer). There is no advantage to a bot on AC, just put in whatever bids at discounted levels you want for the loans you want. If someone then wants to sell it would match instantly - and beat any bot. I find it incredibly frustrating that I have to wait for a day when I try and sell at a discount for it to 'match' and I know buyers do too. I don't think deliberately slowing down a market has any benefits. It just increases frustration and decreases liquidity. I can't see any benefit of allowing an efficient market to only trade once a day but many downsides.
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rscal
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Post by rscal on Mar 26, 2019 13:46:10 GMT
I'm not sure Chris will be too happy having spent months working on speeding up the matching that people now say they want it to remain slow! AC has a different model to most of the named platforms as you can put bids and offers in, the others can't. ABL allows this and has instant matching and doesn't have an issue with bots as it has a proper market (ie there's a bid and an offer). There is no advantage to a bot on AC, just put in whatever bids at discounted levels you want for the loans you want. If someone then wants to sell it would match instantly - and beat any bot. I find it incredibly frustrating that I have to wait for a day when I try and sell at a discount for it to 'match' and I know buyers do too. I don't think deliberately slowing down a market has any benefits. It just increases frustration and decreases liquidity. I can't see any benefit of allowing an efficient market to only trade once a day but many downsides. I would agree that if selling at a discount, then near instant processing times would be helpful. It would also help in the case of the current system if a 'timestamp' such as the hour and minute of the day when a loan was last processed were displayed (and perhaps filterable as a result?) to give an idea of how close things are to the next 'cycle'.(highlisted Red for "things are getting close" and Green for "it's taken place, nothing imminent")
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 26, 2019 14:24:31 GMT
I'm not sure Chris will be too happy having spent months working on speeding up the matching that people now say they want it to remain slow! AC has a different model to most of the named platforms as you can put bids and offers in, the others can't. ABL allows this and has instant matching and doesn't have an issue with bots as it has a proper market (ie there's a bid and an offer). There is no advantage to a bot on AC, just put in whatever bids at discounted levels you want for the loans you want. If someone then wants to sell it would match instantly - and beat any bot. I find it incredibly frustrating that I have to wait for a day when I try and sell at a discount for it to 'match' and I know buyers do too. I don't think deliberately slowing down a market has any benefits. It just increases frustration and decreases liquidity. I can't see any benefit of allowing an efficient market to only trade once a day but many downsides. I would agree that if selling at a discount, then near instant processing times would be helpful. It would also help in the case of the current system if a 'timestamp' such as the hour and minute of the day when a loan was last processed were displayed (and perhaps filterable as a result?) to give an idea of how close things are to the next 'cycle'.(highlisted Red for "things are getting close" and Green for "it's taken place, nothing imminent") Yes agreed, I have thought that would be a really useful addition and probably easy to implement. This would have the added benefit of indicating to people things aren't instant and give them confidence the system isn't broken (which some do).
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Mar 26, 2019 15:01:54 GMT
Yes agreed, I have thought that would be a really useful addition and probably easy to implement. Unfortunately, I think that AC have built so many layers of complexity on top of a matching system that wasn't really fit for purpose in the first place that nothing is "easy to implement" any more - at least not until there's a fundamental redesign that gets the basics right.
The current matching algorithm seems routinely to fail to "clear the market" each time it processes a loan - unfulfilled buy orders and unfulfilled sell orders that could have matched each other seem to be left on the books even immediately after a given loan has been processed, and having a matching algorithm that "clears the market" is, as I understand it, a pre-requisite of systems that allow real-time processing of incoming orders as widely used e.g. on stock exchanges across the world.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Mar 26, 2019 16:23:43 GMT
The automated accounts do buy at a discount, they just don't sell at a discount. It's not as easy as that unfortunately. Yes, true but the access accounts very rarely buy (if at all) on the SM and the other accounts are tiny in comparison to what else is going on. Why generate all this annoyance and frustration for the sake of that? Discounts are primarily an issue for the MLA. Yes some investors in the GBBA may miss out on a really tiny amount of discount that they probably wouldn't ever be aware of anyway. Even then, it's highly unlikely that they would, they would still participate in the usual matching sweep which includes discounted loans. It's not as if all these discounts are being snapped up instantly. Giving users of the MLA first dibs on them does not undermine the spirit of the platform. It is comforting for investors if they know they can offer a reasonable discount and things will sell quickly. Right now they have to wait up to 24 hours to see what happens. That does not make a happy market.
Whilst I think the system would benefit from a bit of a turbo charge, surely instantaneous matching could result in bots and market manipulation? The one thing I do like about the current system is that everyone (minnows and BH's alike) get an opportunity to buy and sell, simply by setting their orders. Whilst the process at an individual loan level seems a bit of a mystery I don't get the impression ordinary investors are being treated differently in any way.
I agree with the ability to set the same orders for groups of loans instead of the twenty clicks per loan malarkey we have at the moment, displaying the discounts on the main loanbook as a sortable column, and even the timestamp idea.
I'd also like to see a revamp of the transaction data to make it more useful and possible to analyse relatively easily. It's a joke having the loan and transaction details in one big text cell instead of split out; and even 5 pages of transactions of nanopence sale/purchases of the same loan at the same time would be better if they could be aggregated, and also in this connection, I really do not need to know the loan part IDs, and if AC does they are welcome to keep it to themselves.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 26, 2019 16:35:33 GMT
Yes, true but the access accounts very rarely buy (if at all) on the SM and the other accounts are tiny in comparison to what else is going on. Why generate all this annoyance and frustration for the sake of that? Discounts are primarily an issue for the MLA. Yes some investors in the GBBA may miss out on a really tiny amount of discount that they probably wouldn't ever be aware of anyway. Even then, it's highly unlikely that they would, they would still participate in the usual matching sweep which includes discounted loans. It's not as if all these discounts are being snapped up instantly. Giving users of the MLA first dibs on them does not undermine the spirit of the platform. It is comforting for investors if they know they can offer a reasonable discount and things will sell quickly. Right now they have to wait up to 24 hours to see what happens. That does not make a happy market.
Whilst I think the system would benefit from a bit of a turbo charge, surely instantaneous matching could result in bots and market manipulation? The one thing I do like about the current system is that everyone (minnows and BH's alike) get an opportunity to buy and sell, simply by setting their orders. Whilst the process at an individual loan level seems a bit of a mystery I don't get the impression ordinary investors are being treated differently in any way. No, that's the point. It will be the same as now just instant for discounted parts. You set your orders as always and if someone sets an opposing order it will just match straight away. If you want to buy a loan at -1% you set an order as now and if someone sets a sell order at -1% it matches straight away (the sell with all the buy orders set). There is no scope for a bot to jump in as it would be instantaneous. I don't see any benefit in making all the buyers and sellers wait for 12 hours until they trade. I can't see under any circumstance how faster matching could treat big investors better than smaller investors.
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