angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Mar 27, 2023 20:47:43 GMT
Investing in buy to let when we we are looking at the most overpriced and unaffordable house prices in history - what could go wrong. Oh and Stuart Law is behind it - count me in. So if house prices are at their "most unaffordable in history", presumably that means less people able to afford to buy and therefore needing to rent instead, right ? * *I'm not suggesting this is the right time to get in to 'buy to let', simply pointing out the potential contradiction in the reasoning.
If you own an asset whose market price decreases in value you can make a loss even if you earn a modest income from it. And rental yields are modest and residential property in the UK is probably very over valued. There is no contradiction.
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tjtl
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Post by tjtl on Mar 28, 2023 7:29:49 GMT
It is the case that the interest rate shocks have hit capital values and perception of property, and we are seeing this on AE properties- there looks to have been a couple of portfolios liquidated looking at the pressure on prices. This is compensated for by the step-up in yields having to be offered (re the new one at 7.5%). The question is which of the capital fall/ yield increase is temporary and which is permanent. IF (and it is a big IF) a combination of serious government (whether from Sunak or Starmer and an absence of Truss, Boris and Corbyn) property swings back in favour and capital values revert to the last 4 decade norm (i.e. tends to move higher), then locking in yields at 7% plus now may have been a shrewd move. Of course, if property prices collapse, if charities are unable to afford the new lease terms, if disaster strikes then this may be a car-crash waiting to happen. I am in the former camp, prepared to accept some short-term volatility for what I expect to be a strong income stream and capital protection in the mid-term - understand why others may have a different point of view. Differing views are what makes a market.
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angrysaveruk
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Say No To T.D.S
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Post by angrysaveruk on Mar 28, 2023 11:16:58 GMT
It is the case that the interest rate shocks have hit capital values and perception of property, and we are seeing this on AE properties- there looks to have been a couple of portfolios liquidated looking at the pressure on prices. This is compensated for by the step-up in yields having to be offered (re the new one at 7.5%). The question is which of the capital fall/ yield increase is temporary and which is permanent. IF (and it is a big IF) a combination of serious government (whether from Sunak or Starmer and an absence of Truss, Boris and Corbyn) property swings back in favour and capital values revert to the last 4 decade norm (i.e. tends to move higher), then locking in yields at 7% plus now may have been a shrewd move. Of course, if property prices collapse, if charities are unable to afford the new lease terms, if disaster strikes then this may be a car-crash waiting to happen. I am in the former camp, prepared to accept some short-term volatility for what I expect to be a strong income stream and capital protection in the mid-term - understand why others may have a different point of view. Differing views are what makes a market.
I totally agree, however ALOT of established land lords are dumping their property portfolios. Going from 0% to 4% interest rates has a massive influence on the BTL business model. Given the downward pressure on house prices at the moment I am pretty sure we are in for a big drop (atleast 15%).
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tjtl
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Post by tjtl on Mar 30, 2023 16:45:00 GMT
You may be right, and there may be a big fall in property prices, but at the risk of appearing impolite I should introduce you to other economists who have predicted nine of the last three recessions. One of the fundamental weaknesses of the UK is its lack of housing stock- driven by planning controls, green belts, nimbyism. What this also seems to do is stop major price falls. Anyway, as others have pointed out, the AE model isn't consumer buy-to-let, it is based upon lengthy leases from credible charities, with upward only inflation-linked rent reviews. The main worry is (as has happened with a recent REIT) that the tenant (the Charity, not the occupant) reneges and cannot pay the rental- however I have been quietly impressed with the quality of the charities AE are dealing with, there may be some failures but there is the property giving significant down-side protection. AE seem to be growing at a measured pace with only one or so new properties each month- I suspect that isn't just caution but a realistic appraisal of demand- as commented before the liquidity looks to be lacking. Like others I wish it would change its name- the association with AC is, I am sure, putting marginal investors off. I now have just over £100k on the platform, and I set out in an earlier post my likes and dislikes- the one thing that I really do want is more stats on the website , more detail on liquidity. But all-in-all I ilke the offer, the management, the charities being worked with, and the yield.
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Post by BenAssetzExchange on Mar 31, 2023 8:43:03 GMT
tjtl thank you for your feedback. On your concerns, I can tell you that AE reported a profit for financial year 2021/22 and a small profit for Q1 2022/23. We are very aware sentiment has fallen somewhat given recent events and some people are wary of buying as they are concerned about house price falls. Having said that we have explained the situation to our partners and as you will be seeing we are now bringing higher yield loans to the platform and the demand from our underwriters remains high. We have indeed slowed down our rate of origination, despite huge demand for properties from our partners, and we are trying to focus on smaller sized deals. There has been some liquidating of positions by a handful of people but the vast majority of our investors remain happy and are in it for the long term. Liquidity is of course an important issue and it is the reason we have slowed down origination. Prices on the platform have indeed fallen, concentrated on the lower yielding supported living properties as interest rates have risen. It is important however to remember that these leases are inflation linked. We have 20 properties having their rent reviewed upwards from 1 April and this is going to add 0.50% to 0.60% to the yield on many of these properties which will all of a sudden make them much more attractive - and of course they will continue to benefit from further inflation rises in the future. On your request for more stats, I am happy to explore this but it's difficult to think what would be informative stats to display. I am more than happy to discuss what users would find useful. For example, you reference money on the platform and how it is growing but the money on the platform simply grows as we add new loans. It's a zero sum game so if someone adds money and buys then the seller simply reinvests in another property or withdraws and if they do reinvest, ultimately someone will be left with cash in their account which they will withdraw. We do of course have a sum of money in our client account that moves around but the main driver of that is underwriters adding money to fund new property purchases and of course when we buy the property the balance reduces. One major observation I would make is that when savings rates were zero people were happy just to leave idle money sitting in the AE wallet. Now rates are higher we see a huge amount of churn. Some people are making multiple withdrawals and deposits in the same month to earn interest on their cash when it is uninvested. On your comments about selling the properties, that isn't our ultimate goal. We want to provide long term homes for vulnerable people (homes for life potentially) and our aim is not to sell for some of the reasons you mentioned. Of course this decision remains entirely at the discretion of the lenders and potentially there could be a situation where if the price on the platform was sufficiently below the market price lenders voted to sell the property. This option in itself should help put a support under the prices on the Exchange. Finally, on the more general discussion on what's going to happen with house prices I can offer my own personal opinion (and who doesn't like discussing house prices!). Of course, none of us know what will happen but I do think there is going to be (in fact there already has been) a significant fall in real house prices but this will not be reflected in nominal price falls. What I mean by that is house prices rises will not keep up with inflation. If CPI is 10% and house prices are flat for the year then thats a 10% real terms fall although actual prices have remained stable. Nominal house prices have fallen around 4-5% nationally from the peak I believe and I do not think they will fall too much more. We have noticed the market has been weaker over the past several months but more recently we have actually been outbid on a number of properties (see the newsletter we will be releasing later today for more details) and that simply wasn't happening 3 months ago. Yes people are being hit with higher mortgage costs but employment is still buoyant and people are finally seeing reasonable pay rises which will help. Of course, I could be wrong and it takes 2 views to form a market but I do know some people who have been calling a house price crash for the past 20 years. As pointed out though with demand outsripping supply and the population growing I struggle to see large nominal price falls.
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tjtl
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Post by tjtl on Mar 31, 2023 10:47:01 GMT
As I noted in one of my postings is one of the reasons I like AE is the level of engagement and disclosure by the management team-and Ben's post just underlines that. I agree with almost all the points made.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 31, 2023 13:05:21 GMT
BenAssetzExchange I assume a lot of the stats will be covered in the annual Outcomes Statement which I guess is somewhere on platform (I haven't looked yet). There are some on the losses & default page as well ... current year figs 3 months out if date but I guess due for quarterly update
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Post by BenAssetzExchange on Mar 31, 2023 14:11:02 GMT
BenAssetzExchange I assume a lot of the stats will be covered in the annual Outcomes Statement which I guess is somewhere on platform (I haven't looked yet). There are some on the losses & default page as well ... current year figs 3 months out if date but I guess due for quarterly update Hi, we do not set the price of our loans (see COBS 18.12.21), the price is dictated by the rent our partner is willing to pay less our fee and any other costs. However we do publish the majority of the items included under COBS 18.12.23 on the page you mention. Of course given we do not lend to 3rd parties so I think some of this is meaningless. On risk categorisations we have been working on a new framework which will take into account the current price the investor has to pay to buy a loan (as paying 10% over the launch price a week later is surely more of a risk than paying 10% less) but it's fairly complicated and is taking some time. We have only been updating the page in question annually but it would make sense to update it more regularly.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 31, 2023 15:58:20 GMT
BenAssetzExchange I assume a lot of the stats will be covered in the annual Outcomes Statement which I guess is somewhere on platform (I haven't looked yet). There are some on the losses & default page as well ... current year figs 3 months out if date but I guess due for quarterly update Hi, we do not set the price of our loans (see COBS 18.12.21), the price is dictated by the rent our partner is willing to pay less our fee and any other costs. However we do publish the majority of the items included under COBS 18.12.23 on the page you mention. Of course given we do not lend to 3rd parties so I think some of this is meaningless. On risk categorisations we have been working on a new framework which will take into account the current price the investor has to pay to buy a loan (as paying 10% over the launch price a week later is surely more of a risk than paying 10% less) but it's fairly complicated and is taking some time. We have only been updating the page in question annually but it would make sense to update it more regularly. Thanks. Interesting point. Does not the fact that UW are initially required to sell at par mean you are setting the price to a degree? Also the borrower is not the partner but the SPV, the platform is deducting fees etc which influence the return paid to lenders so the interest payable to lenders is not purely determined by the partner. It seems an interesting consequence of the hybrid model AE runs that parts of COBS that affect pure P2P platforms don't apply.
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Post by BenAssetzExchange on Mar 31, 2023 16:14:00 GMT
Hi, we do not set the price of our loans (see COBS 18.12.21), the price is dictated by the rent our partner is willing to pay less our fee and any other costs. However we do publish the majority of the items included under COBS 18.12.23 on the page you mention. Of course given we do not lend to 3rd parties so I think some of this is meaningless. On risk categorisations we have been working on a new framework which will take into account the current price the investor has to pay to buy a loan (as paying 10% over the launch price a week later is surely more of a risk than paying 10% less) but it's fairly complicated and is taking some time. We have only been updating the page in question annually but it would make sense to update it more regularly. Thanks. Interesting point. Does not the fact that UW are initially required to sell at par mean you are setting the price to a degree? Also the borrower is not the partner but the SPV, the platform is deducting fees etc which influence the return paid to lenders so the interest payable to lenders is not purely determined by the partner. It seems an interesting consequence of the hybrid model AE runs that parts of COBS that affect pure P2P platforms don't apply. We are forcing the underwriters to sell at the launch price for a period (they can cancel their orders after 14 days if they so wish) to try and be fair to all investors. When we didn't do this and demand was high, prices immediately lurched upwards which many people commented on as being unfair. We agreed. Demand is lower now but these automated sales allow the selling to be rotated between the underwriters in a formalised fashion...so we don't get the situation of fastest finger first with one guy putting £100k up for sale and being at the front of the queue. If they don't want to sell any they can always buy back in the open market like anyone else as we do not currently apply caps to holdings. I would argue that doesn't mean we are setting the price. We are forcing them to sell for a period at what they paid but any of them can undercut the price from the off, or indeed look to sell more at a higher price. Of course the fees we charge influence the price but we are trying to be fairly consistent in that regard. The new 7%+ yielders are driven by higher rents not us cutting our fees. We have had some investors suggest we fix the price of each loan so they all pay a similar yield so we do not simply see investors buying the highest yield loans but we do not agree with that. Rental yields differ from area to area for a whole variety of reasons and we should offer each opportunity as it is and let investors decide what appeals to them.
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eeyore
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Post by eeyore on Mar 31, 2023 16:55:16 GMT
...... We have had some investors suggest we fix the price of each loan so they all pay a similar yield so we do not simply see investors buying the highest yield loans but we do not agree with that. Rental yields differ from area to area for a whole variety of reasons and we should offer each opportunity as it is and let investors decide what appeals to them. On that specific point, I very much don't agree either. I'm reminded that the Blackburn loan (#139) looked risky at the outset with nothing but hope that rental income would flow from tenants yet to be signed-up, and so it proved! And then effectively leasing the whole development to Serco... But then I don't understand the risk assessment categories "Low", "Low-Med", "Med", etc. Are these based on any sort of objective basis or what?
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Post by BenAssetzExchange on Apr 2, 2023 8:22:22 GMT
...... We have had some investors suggest we fix the price of each loan so they all pay a similar yield so we do not simply see investors buying the highest yield loans but we do not agree with that. Rental yields differ from area to area for a whole variety of reasons and we should offer each opportunity as it is and let investors decide what appeals to them. On that specific point, I very much don't agree either. I'm reminded that the Blackburn loan (#139) looked risky at the outset with nothing but hope that rental income would flow from tenants yet to be signed-up, and so it proved! And then effectively leasing the whole development to Serco... But then I don't understand the risk assessment categories "Low", "Low-Med", "Med", etc. Are these based on any sort of objective basis or what? At the time #139 was slightly higher yielding than other loans we were launching. We considered that the block would be attractive as accommodation for potentially lots of different uses and would be easy to let to a variety of tenants. This continues to be the case but shortly after leasing Pentagon had some internal changes that meant they no longer wished to go down the originally intended route. Having said that, they have paid 15 months rent while the property has been unlet (£75,000 in total) as per the terms of the lease, although they are currently 1 month in arrears. When weighing up bringing this opportunity we did look at the financial situation of Pentagon itself and considered that it was an opportunity worth putting to investors, we also took a £20,000 rent deposit which we can dip into if needed. Pentagon are liable for the rent whether the property is accommodated or not. As you mentioned they have now sublet the building to Serco and they declined the opportunity to exit the lease, leaving us to face Serco directly when offered. Under section 9 of the lease we can end this lease if they stop paying so we are fairly relaxed about the situation. We also of course own the property which is the ultimate security on the loan. The risk assessments are done on an objective basis although as I mentioned earlier in this thread we are looking to roll out a new framework which will take into account factors such as the price the loan is trading at on the Exchange. Currently we give it a risk rating based on 8 factors (such as price paid v rics value, type of property etc) and the overall rating is the average of these factors. I agree there needs to be more transparency and the goal is to have the new framework completely visible to investors and potential investors who will be free to challenge any assessment we have made, indeed we welcome such challenges as it will help us to improve the process.
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theta
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Post by theta on Apr 10, 2023 14:27:51 GMT
I have been investing with Assetz Echange for about a year now, gradually increasing my allocation to the point that it is now over 80% of my P2P lending allocation (and about 12% of my overall portfolio, which is roughly 60% equities, 20% property/REITs and 20% fixed income, including P2P lending. I see AE as a hybrid between REIT and P2P lending and it has accordingly occupied some of the property and some (most) of the P2P part of my asset allocation). Since I started allocating to AE, capital values have come down, and some of the rents have started increasing, so yields have gone up, and new properties coming to the exchange start at higher yields. This is along the lines of the expected path in a scenario that inflation spikes leading to interest rate and yield increases. I expect the situation to reverse when eventually inflation subsides, leading to easing of interest rates as well, and therefore market yields for properties in the exchange (and in the broader market). The capital losses would then prove temporary and the accumulated interest will lead to satisfactory total returns (even more so if reinvested at the higher yields over time). This is roughly how I see it playing out (not financial advice! ): Year | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
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CPI | 10.00% | 6.00% | 4.00% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | RFR | 3.00% | 4.00% | 4.50% | 3.50% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | Capital value | £100,000 | £91,667 | £89,692 | £110,240 | £124,296 | £127,403 | £130,588 | £133,853 | £137,199 | £140,629 | Rent | £5,000 | £5,500 | £5,830 | £6,063 | £6,215 | £6,370 | £6,529 | £6,693 | £6,860 | £7,031 | new market yield | 5.00% | 6.00% | 6.50% | 5.50% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | yield on purchase | 5.00% | 5.50% | 5.83% | 6.06% | 6.21% | 6.37% | 6.53% | 6.69% | 6.86% | 7.03% | total return | | -3.33% | 0.19% | 26.57% | 46.69% | 56.01% | 65.57% | 75.36% | 85.40% | 95.69% |
The main risks I see are: - Interest rate spike and associated capital value decline is higher. This is essentially duration risk and I am comfortable having it as long as the principal is tied to inflation in some form (which is also the reason why the only long term gilts I have are index-linked (and I purchased them only once the yield went positive)
- Default risk. This is obviously a risk but a) it is more likely to happen in a scenario of a severe recession leading to funding for the tenants being cut off, less likely in a mildly recessionary or even stagflationary environment, which is the most likely bearish scenario at the moment, and b) it will lead to plummeting interest rates and yields which will help with capital values, in fact as rates are more likely to move faster than actual funding cuts, it's likely that capital values will increase at the onset of a recession (at which point it will be a good time to reallocate to equities or REITs)
- Platform risk. This is the biggest one for me, and the only one that makes me question my current allocation to AE. My impression is obviously quite positive so far (otherwise I wouldn't have invested so much), but it's still a risk and something that I am aware of. To this end, continued communication and transparency helps. I presume there are others in similar situation.
Inflation and rising yields is the primary reason I shifted most of my P2P lending to AE. Duration works both ways. While now, that yields are rising, it hurts, when eventually yields start dropping, one would have wished they had locked a higher yield, especially one that is index linked. With a 5+ year time horizon I prefer a 6% inflation linked yield to even a 10% nominal yield for a few months with reinvestment risk (the flip side of duration risk).
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Post by Ace on Apr 10, 2023 16:26:14 GMT
I have been investing with Assetz Echange for about a year now, gradually increasing my allocation to the point that it is now over 80% of my P2P lending allocation (and about 12% of my overall portfolio, which is roughly 60% equities, 20% property/REITs and 20% fixed income, including P2P lending. I see AE as a hybrid between REIT and P2P lending and it has accordingly occupied some of the property and some (most) of the P2P part of my asset allocation). Since I started allocating to AE, capital values have come down, and some of the rents have started increasing, so yields have gone up, and new properties coming to the exchange start at higher yields. This is along the lines of the expected path in a scenario that inflation spikes leading to interest rate and yield increases. I expect the situation to reverse when eventually inflation subsides, leading to easing of interest rates as well, and therefore market yields for properties in the exchange (and in the broader market). The capital losses would then prove temporary and the accumulated interest will lead to satisfactory total returns (even more so if reinvested at the higher yields over time). This is roughly how I see it playing out (not financial advice! ): Year | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 |
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CPI | 10.00% | 6.00% | 4.00% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | 2.50% | RFR | 3.00% | 4.00% | 4.50% | 3.50% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | 3.00% | Capital value | £100,000 | £91,667 | £89,692 | £110,240 | £124,296 | £127,403 | £130,588 | £133,853 | £137,199 | £140,629 | Rent | £5,000 | £5,500 | £5,830 | £6,063 | £6,215 | £6,370 | £6,529 | £6,693 | £6,860 | £7,031 | new market yield | 5.00% | 6.00% | 6.50% | 5.50% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | 5.00% | yield on purchase | 5.00% | 5.50% | 5.83% | 6.06% | 6.21% | 6.37% | 6.53% | 6.69% | 6.86% | 7.03% | total return | | -3.33% | 0.19% | 26.57% | 46.69% | 56.01% | 65.57% | 75.36% | 85.40% | 95.69% |
The main risks I see are: - Interest rate spike and associated capital value decline is higher. This is essentially duration risk and I am comfortable having it as long as the principal is tied to inflation in some form (which is also the reason why the only long term gilts I have are index-linked (and I purchased them only once the yield went positive)
- Default risk. This is obviously a risk but a) it is more likely to happen in a scenario of a severe recession leading to funding for the tenants being cut off, less likely in a mildly recessionary or even stagflationary environment, which is the most likely bearish scenario at the moment, and b) it will lead to plummeting interest rates and yields which will help with capital values, in fact as rates are more likely to move faster than actual funding cuts, it's likely that capital values will increase at the onset of a recession (at which point it will be a good time to reallocate to equities or REITs)
- Platform risk. This is the biggest one for me, and the only one that makes me question my current allocation to AE. My impression is obviously quite positive so far (otherwise I wouldn't have invested so much), but it's still a risk and something that I am aware of. To this end, continued communication and transparency helps. I presume there are others in similar situation.
Inflation and rising yields is the primary reason I shifted most of my P2P lending to AE. Duration works both ways. While now, that yields are rising, it hurts, when eventually yields start dropping, one would have wished they had locked a higher yield, especially one that is index linked. With a 5+ year time horizon I prefer a 6% inflation linked yield to even a 10% nominal yield for a few months with reinvestment risk (the flip side of duration risk). Thanks for an interesting analysis. Your total return forecast after 10 years equates to an XIRR of 6.94%. It's obviously daft of me to give that level of precision to a forecast with so many moving parts, all of which are very difficult to estimate, so let's call it a round 7%. I think you've shown that it's worth considering including AE in one's portfolio. I've been selling up and drawing down from AE to realise some earlier gains, but you've made me reconsider whether I should revert to maintaining what's left, and perhaps start reinvesting income again 🤔. I couldn't help but compare that to the current and predicted returns from my own P2P portfolio. Basically, I'm wondering how the returns from a very highly diversified P2P portfolio across the whole gamut of risk ranges from Loanpad to AxiaFunder might compare with your forecast returns from a single platform. My portfolio has been running (steadily building up) for 5 years and has a net XIRR of a little over 7% so far. My analysis shows that that return is likely to be understated, mainly due to many higher rate loans that have yet to mature. My best estimate is that it should rise to a little over 11%. Unfortunately, I have a major fly in the ointment; ABLrate. My estimate assumes zero further interest payments from ABLrate, but a complete return of all capital. Both of these estimates are bound to be wrong, but I've little idea to what extent. If I take the worst possible outcome from ABLrate, zero further interest and zero further capital returned, it would reduce my forecast XIRR over 10 years by about 1.5% (from 11.14% to 9.62%). This assumption is bound to be overly pessimistic, but again, I don't know to what extent. I think a reduction to 10% is unlikely, but I'll go with that. The disadvantages of a highly diversified P2P portfolio (mine has around 20 active platforms with many others in rundown) is the amount of time it takes to manage, and the stress involved when a platform turns bad (there's obviously an increase in the risk that some will). The advantages would be the obvious reduction in risk through diversification and the increase in liquidity. I'm not sure why, but one of my favourite measures for investments is how long it takes to double one's capital. A 7% XIRR would double one's capital every 10 years. A 10% XIRR would double one's capital every 7 years. On balance, I think I'd rather continue with my very highly diversified portfolio for my expected higher return, despite the massive increase in management time, but I can fully understand why someone with less time to devote to P2P would prefer to stick to a much reduced number, or even a single platform, especially when it represents a relatively small proportion of one's overall investments.
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theta
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Post by theta on Apr 11, 2023 12:48:30 GMT
For me the biggest advantage of a diversified P2P portfolio compared to AE is spreading out the platform risk. Otherwise I much prefer the risk/reward on AE because of the inflation link of the interest. Inflation is very difficult to predict. The current episode may prove transitory and we may slowly go back to more normal levels of inflation as we have had this century until last year. This is my base case assumption. In that scenario your P2P portfolio is likely to outperform AE. But we could be in for a stickier inflation or one that comes in waves like the 70's. In that case AE would come ahead, despite the initial drop in capital values. This drop btw is more linked to the change in real (after-inflation) rates, not nominal rates. So far in the current monetary tightening cycle nominal and real rates have moved together. Long dated index-linked gilts in particular (that I think are the best indicators for AE yields) were yielding as low as -2% (that's minus 2%) early last year, and now they yield approximately +0.25% to +0.5%. Accordingly AE yields have risen from below 5% to about 6.5% now. Real rates aren't necessarily going to move together with nominal in the future though, especially if we have entrenched inflation and a weak economy (a stagflationary environment). If inflation remains sticky and close to say 10%, and base rates don't go much higher than 5%, nominal rates could increase but real rates could go negative again, as future inflation expectations increase. In that scenario AE yields most likely wouldn't increase any further either, and AE inflation uplifts to interest paid would feed directly to capital values increasing as well (in nominal terms, ie they would simply preserve their real value). Ultimately I prefer to have a fixed real return than a fixed nominal, so much so that I would accept a lower return overall on average if it means it's inflation protected. Sort of paying for inflation insurance. If long term inflation is say 3%, so that 9% nominal is roughly 6% real, I'd rather have the 6% real than even a bit higher than 9% nominal. Maybe because I'm old enough to remember the 80's inflation!
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