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Post by Ace on Jan 8, 2019 21:59:56 GMT
Assetz's bonus is described in the property's overview tab (25% of post-costs discount-to-purchase-price + 30% vat), but I can't get close to their figure. And it's doesn't appear to be specified in any of the loan documents. EDIT: my mistake, they've now updated the text to make it clearer that it's 30% including VAT. It was late and I was being dumb.
Sections 7.3 & 7.4 of the Loan Conditions state a Management Fee of 12.5% + VAT, but the property's Costs/Income tab seems to use 10% of the Gross Rental figure. FAQs state an Assetz Management Fee of 4.5% of the Gross Rental figure + VAT.
Section 7.7 of the Loan Conditions states that the Repayment Fee is "one percent" in words, but "(2%)" in digits!
The Assetz Exchange Fee of 3% in the property's Costs/Income tab agrees with that stated in the property's Overview tab for new listings, but I can't find this in the Loan Conditions. Unless it's the Broker Fee listed in section 7.1, but that says 2%.
I'm bound to have gotten some of this wrong as this really isn't my bag, but does look a tad confusing and inconsistent to me. I hope some of you professionals out there can put me right.
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Post by Proptechfish on Jan 8, 2019 22:08:36 GMT
I got to say i was looking forward to this. I was thinking it would be an REIT style investment, which it almost is although i've never come across an REIT with a 5 year disposal option. After reading some of the attached documents all i know for sure is my head hurts. This is way more complicated than I was expecting, and seems a little on the steep side. I need to rest my weary brain cells before trying again tomorrow  |
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 8, 2019 23:18:39 GMT
Assetz's bonus is described in the property's overview tab (25% of post-costs discount-to-purchase-price + 30% vat), but I can't get close to their figure. And it's doesn't appear to be specified in any of the loan documents. Sections 7.3 & 7.4 of the Loan Conditions state a Management Fee of 12.5% + VAT, but the property's Costs/Income tab seems to use 10% of the Gross Rental figure. FAQs state an Assetz Management Fee of 4.5% of the Gross Rental figure + VAT. Section 7.7 of the Loan Conditions states that the Repayment Fee is "one percent" in words, but "(2%)" in digits! The Assetz Exchange Fee of 3% in the property's Costs/Income tab agrees with that stated in the property's Overview tab for new listings, but I can't find this in the Loan Conditions. Unless it's the Broker Fee listed in section 7.1, but that says 2%. I'm bound to have gotten some of this wrong as this really isn't my bag, but does look a tad confusing and inconsistent to me. I hope some of you professionals out there can put me right. Are yes, I hadnt read that bit. Silly me I just read the fees bit in the FAQ
'We believe in being the as transparent as we can with our investors. Here is a breakdown of how the fee structure works when you invest in Assetz Exchange. We also added a worked example to help you clearly understand what to expect when you purchase and sell lots through us.'
Cost of property + Fees for property SDLT, legals, maintenance etc = cost of lot 2% AE transaction fee, 2% AE exit fee
Management
'To keep it a truly hands-off investment, we have organised established and renowned property management company, LSL, to manage the day-to-day running of the property.' - few typos there
12.5% +VAT which seems to be 8% for LSL, 4.5% monitoring for AE
Then there's the bit in the actual FAQ
'How does Assetz Exchange make money?
Assetz Exchange charges a 2% transaction fee for investment transactions and a 2% fee on the exit of the investment. We also charge a 4.5% monitoring fee to the gross rental income. The transaction fee is a one-off fee at the point funds are invested or exited. This fee is not annually recurring. All fees are laid out clearly when you make an investment. We handle the relationship between LSL (our Management Co.) for which we charge 4.5% + VAT of gross rental income. This is deducted from gross rental income and reduces the amount distributed to investors.
AE bonus isnt mentioned in FAQbut it is 30% of discount-stamp duty & legal costs ((10004-2999.88-1800)*30%) which is correct 1561.24
No mention of it in the loan conditions, & broker fee is 2%, so all appears to be in breach of the loan conditions
Yes, Management & monitoring fees are clearly wrong, they total 12.5% but the split is wrong & theyve forgotten the VAT.
If the manager is P****** as referred to in the loan particulars & management agreement, what are LSL doing?
Min investment in FAQ is 1 lot, not 15 'as AE welcomes all investors big & small'
1 unit costs 96p, 10 costs 9.62, 100 costs 96.12 so obviously some rounding going on but cheaper to buy 10 x 1, than 10 (if you could) which is weird
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Post by Ace on Jan 8, 2019 23:38:31 GMT
Assetz's bonus is described in the property's overview tab (25% of post-costs discount-to-purchase-price + 30% vat), but I can't get close to their figure. And it's doesn't appear to be specified in any of the loan documents. Sections 7.3 & 7.4 of the Loan Conditions state a Management Fee of 12.5% + VAT, but the property's Costs/Income tab seems to use 10% of the Gross Rental figure. FAQs state an Assetz Management Fee of 4.5% of the Gross Rental figure + VAT. Section 7.7 of the Loan Conditions states that the Repayment Fee is "one percent" in words, but "(2%)" in digits! The Assetz Exchange Fee of 3% in the property's Costs/Income tab agrees with that stated in the property's Overview tab for new listings, but I can't find this in the Loan Conditions. Unless it's the Broker Fee listed in section 7.1, but that says 2%. I'm bound to have gotten some of this wrong as this really isn't my bag, but does look a tad confusing and inconsistent to me. I hope some of you professionals out there can put me right. Are yes, I hadnt read that bit. Silly me I just read the fees bit in the FAQ
'We believe in being the as transparent as we can with our investors. Here is a breakdown of how the fee structure works when you invest in Assetz Exchange. We also added a worked example to help you clearly understand what to expect when you purchase and sell lots through us.'
Cost of property + Fees for property SDLT, legals, maintenance etc = cost of lot 2% AE transaction fee, 2% AE exit fee
Management
'To keep it a truly hands-off investment, we have organised established and renowned property management company, LSL, to manage the day-to-day running of the property.' - few typos there
12.5% +VAT which seems to be 8% for LSL, 4.5% monitoring for AE
Then there's the bit in the actual FAQ
'How does Assetz Exchange make money?
Assetz Exchange charges a 2% transaction fee for investment transactions and a 2% fee on the exit of the investment. We also charge a 4.5% monitoring fee to the gross rental income. The transaction fee is a one-off fee at the point funds are invested or exited. This fee is not annually recurring. All fees are laid out clearly when you make an investment. We handle the relationship between LSL (our Management Co.) for which we charge 4.5% + VAT of gross rental income. This is deducted from gross rental income and reduces the amount distributed to investors.
AE bonus isnt mentioned in FAQbut it is 30% of discount-stamp duty & legal costs ((10004-2999.88-1800)*30%) which is correct 1561.24
No mention of it in the loan conditions, & broker fee is 2%, so all appears to be in breach of the loan conditions
Yes, Management & monitoring fees are clearly wrong, they total 12.5% but the split is wrong & theyve forgotten the VAT.
If the manager is P****** as referred to in the loan particulars & management agreement, what are LSL doing?
Min investment in FAQ is 1 lot, not 15 'as AE welcomes all investors big & small'
1 unit costs 96p, 10 costs 9.62, 100 costs 96.12 so obviously some rounding going on but cheaper to buy 10 x 1, than 10 (if you could) which is weird
Well, I'm really glad they're going to be transparent. I'd hate to see how complicated they could make it if they wanted to be opaque!
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pom
Member of DD Central
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Post by pom on Jan 9, 2019 8:51:36 GMT
1 unit costs 96p, 10 costs 9.62, 100 costs 96.12 so obviously some rounding going on but cheaper to buy 10 x 1, than 10 (if you could) which is weird
Given Assetz love lots of decimal places perhaps you shouldn't assume it actually IS being rounded...
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 9, 2019 12:06:27 GMT
Well, the three days for a deposit appears to be less than 24hrs as mine has appeared.
So thats good, only problem is given all the other errors, currently uninvestable.
Edit - noticed this little disclaimer in the spiel
'Capital gains on this property are capped at 5% pa over the term of the investment under our regulatory permissions.'
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dandy
Posts: 427
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Post by dandy on Jan 9, 2019 13:11:07 GMT
Well, the three days for a deposit appears to be less than 24hrs as mine has appeared.
So thats good, only problem is given all the other errors, currently uninvestable.
Edit - noticed this little disclaimer in the spiel
'Capital gains on this property are capped at 5% pa over the term of the investment under our regulatory permissions.'
So what happens if the actual gains are 10% per annum? Assume it is donated to charity  Interested to know what regulation restricts capital gains to 5% per annum
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Post by Proptechfish on Jan 9, 2019 13:53:56 GMT
Noticed that in account preferences, all contact preferences are turned off by default, i've turned these on to see to see what comes through.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 9, 2019 14:31:11 GMT
Well, the three days for a deposit appears to be less than 24hrs as mine has appeared.
So thats good, only problem is given all the other errors, currently uninvestable.
Edit - noticed this little disclaimer in the spiel
'Capital gains on this property are capped at 5% pa over the term of the investment under our regulatory permissions.'
So what happens if the actual gains are 10% per annum? Assume it is donated to charity Interested to know what regulation restricts capital gains to 5% per annum They have p2p permissions but not investment permissions so not sure how capital growth comes under those as normally youd only get interest. Its a weird structure.
However, given the current property market, 5%pa growth would be decent. More important, what happens if there is a decline in value, how does that work? Reading/watching to do later.
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dandy
Posts: 427
Likes: 341
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Post by dandy on Jan 9, 2019 15:31:32 GMT
So what happens if the actual gains are 10% per annum? Assume it is donated to charity Interested to know what regulation restricts capital gains to 5% per annum They have p2p permissions but not investment permissions so not sure how capital growth comes under those as normally youd only get interest. Its a weird structure.
However, given the current property market, 5%pa growth would be decent. More important, what happens if there is a decline in value, how does that work? Reading/watching to do later.
I agree that 5% CG p/a would be good - but not if the real CG is more. And as you say I thought the structure meant that legally we are lending and earning income with any CG converted to income via a special dividend on sale (or similar). A fee of about 5% to AE at the start is a bit of a wind up so must be an error.
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Post by Proptechfish on Jan 9, 2019 15:33:23 GMT
The fist 15 lots are now showing as sold so something is moving. Still not had my deposit (x2) cleared though..
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Jan 9, 2019 15:42:20 GMT
They have p2p permissions but not investment permissions so not sure how capital growth comes under those as normally youd only get interest. Its a weird structure.
However, given the current property market, 5%pa growth would be decent. More important, what happens if there is a decline in value, how does that work? Reading/watching to do later.
I agree that 5% CG p/a would be good - but not if the real CG is more. And as you say I thought the structure meant that legally we are lending and earning income with any CG converted to income via a special dividend on sale (or similar). A fee of about 5% to AE at the start is a bit of a wind up so must be an error. Is the implication that due to AE buying wisely we are already sitting on a theoretical 8% capital gain? Presumably the 92p being the purchase price and the Lot value of 100p being the resale price. (Yes I know)
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jan 9, 2019 15:43:52 GMT
Hi everyone.
The site hasn't been formally launched yet but is soft-live for founder registered members and there is a formal invitation email going out to those people who pre-registered, probably tomorrow, with confirmation of the promotional 1% reduction applying.
We will announce publicly in a few more days and all the corrections and finishing touches will be applied by then. Access at present is for feedback on anything that we haven't already updated or don't already know about but is a live investment environment for those early users.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jan 9, 2019 15:50:09 GMT
How would you guys compare this type of product with something like the one offered by British Pearl, what would be the pros/cons of both? Hi nsilva, British Pearl would like to highlight some of the difference we see. You have asked a great question and before responding specifically I thought it might be worth noting the key set-up difference from a regulator point of view. Assetz Exchange are operating under a P2P license whereas British Pearl operates under two separate permissions: • the same P2P permission which applies to our loan investments • our additional Alternative Investment Fund Manager permission which applies to our share investments it is this second permission that guides our decision making process. By acting as a fund manager on behalf of our customers we source, secure and manage all of the properties. Our specialised investment team draws on a wealth of experience across both property investment and global investment management to identify the best opportunities on your behalf. All investment decisions are made against a detailed macro backdrop, comprising economic outlook, interest rate expectations, ongoing management costs, regional supply and other localised considerations, e.g. proximity to local amenities in order to identify areas most likely to offer superior returns for investors. We have worked hard to bring an institutional investment management approach to our property investment platform. This means that we work hard to ensure all stages of our investment process follow strict steps that are documented to try and add value at each point. Once a property is live on the site, the Property team constantly monitor the portfolio of investments that are available to investors in the New Sale and Resale Markets. That sounds like us as well. We can use P2P permissions to cover both rental income and capital growth so don't wish to have the extra complexity and risk of an equity layer at this time. There are many other differences between our platforms and also our product focus too so good luck as I wouldn't expect we are in the same space as we evolve.
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Post by stuartassetzcapital on Jan 9, 2019 15:52:57 GMT
It has launched. Annoyingly the pre-reg seems to have been pointless, go on the site you have to resign-up fill in details inc bank details, pass fraud checks (which took less than 5 seconds for me) an hey presto the 1st property is live. The site is in pre-soft launch ! It launches to pre-registered investors tomorrow and will go public a few days afterwards. The 1% promotion will be applied to all pre-regstered founder investors and will show on the dashboard shortly. Soft-launches are all the rage nowadays and we are working through the final list of web content updates but the core software itself is complete.
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