jester
Member of DD Central
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Post by jester on Nov 5, 2022 13:52:59 GMT
It's time again to rejuvenate one of my favourite old threads, I'm reinvesting dividends in my (small) basket of REITS/Infrastructure investments and am keen to diversify further, suggestions please?
Also feel free to positively/negatively critique my current holdings!
Picton Property REIT
Tritax Big Box REIT
New River REIT
Warehouse REIT
Regional REIT
LXI REIT
Supermarket Income REIT
HICL Infrastructure
TRIG Renewables Infrastructure
Primary Health Properties
Sirius
iShares Global Property Securities Equity Index
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JamesFrance
Member of DD Central
Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Nov 6, 2022 12:25:46 GMT
I have a large current loss on Tritax, The asset value appears ok but it is trading at over 40% discount, it started to drop when Amazon said they were stopping UK expansion and has not been helped by the British Volt situation.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Nov 6, 2022 14:43:45 GMT
Important to remember that REITs distribute income as a PID with 20% witholding tax.
If you hold them in an ISA/SIPP, you get that tax back.
However, if you hold the same REITS within an etf (like the iShares) you DON'T get the 20% tax back.
So usually better to hold the individual REITs if using a tax shelter.
Also, outside of a tax shelter the PIDs are taxed as income rather than dividends - may make a difference (REIT v etf) depending on your specific tax situation/use of dividend allowance/marginal income tax rate.
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Post by mostlywrong on Nov 6, 2022 15:31:28 GMT
Important to remember that REITs distribute income as a PID with 20% witholding tax. If you hold them in an ISA/SIPP, you get that tax back. However, if you hold the same REITS within an etf (like the iShares) you DON'T get the 20% tax back. So usually better to hold the individual REITs if using a tax shelter. Also, outside of a tax shelter the PIDs are taxed as income rather than dividends - may make a difference (REIT v etf) depending on your specific tax situation/use of dividend allowance/marginal income tax rate. I think that depends on how good your broker is. If the broker has registered the share with HMRC, then the dividends are paid gross with the responsibility for any tax due falling on the holder.
I hold BBOX and AEWU with AJ Bell (SIPP) and II (ISA).
BBOX moved across to the new scheme quite early on with AEWU much later.
I didn't know about the ETF bit - so, thanks, but there are these little traps all over the place...
I agree with the comment about REITs in a trading account; it is a pain having to work out what was paid (PID or non-PID) and then find the correct place in the tax return.
Clue: PID income is not reported anywhere close to other dividend income. No sirree. And, IIRC, the calculation for the tax due on the PID element appears as a completely different entry in the overall calculation.
Recommendation: do not hold REITs in your trading account!
MW
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Post by mostlywrong on Nov 6, 2022 15:34:14 GMT
Somewhere in my notes, I recorded the observation that the best description of the tax treatment of a REIT was published by British Land.
MW
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jester
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
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Post by jester on Nov 6, 2022 21:45:40 GMT
I have a large current loss on Tritax, The asset value appears ok but it is trading at over 40% discount, it started to drop when Amazon said they were stopping UK expansion and has not been helped by the British Volt situation. Tritax have been a solid performer for me compared to the disaster that New River REIT, question is are they good value at last or is it good money after bad !!
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jester
Member of DD Central
Posts: 175
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Post by jester on Nov 6, 2022 21:46:38 GMT
In my case I have them all ISA wrapped so haven't taken the time to consider any tax implications but appreciate the heads up!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2022 7:48:19 GMT
A fundamental principle to own any asset is you have to be prepared to sell it.
I can only speak to two of your REITs
TRIG continues with steady dividend flow and offers green energy in a time when we are literally at war with a fossil fueled money tree empire. It will continue to dip every so often based on politics or any massive funding round.
SRE is a different story, they lease out commercial and industrial property in Germany, so when the world is coming out of recession and growth is the thing, it does well. When Germany goes into recession it falls. Since the market is always ahead of reality. Buying nowish in the 69 p range is the time.
I maintain a tolerance level on all my shares and sold SRE when it dropped through these back in the spring. Buying back in now.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2022 9:39:01 GMT
For those who like to know about my general share trading, I have recently reviewed the situation after Putin's war started and looked for UK shares that have gone up in the last 6 month. When I did my research there were only 53 individual UK shares in that pot. I then removed all the noisy ones and just looked for ones that had gone upwards steadily. I guess I might call them "Putin-proof". Taking out the usual disasters left me only 6
CER (moated software)
GRID (battery power around the UK)
NWF (agriculture support and rural oil sales in UK)
PLUS (CFD software from Isreal)
SHOE (cheap shoes for the masses in the UK)
SRE (discussed above)
doing ok, only time will tell
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Post by mostlywrong on Nov 7, 2022 11:01:00 GMT
Just a random thought on REITs...
Their tax status means that they have to distribute 90% of their income as dividends.
Which means that they tend not to hold much cash.
If they want to buy a new asset, they fall back on the market; you and me both, for a rights issue.
Such rights issues tend to be finely priced and tend to be fairly quick (days rather than weeks).
If you want to join in then you will need ready cash.
I have noticed that Primary Bid has been used by a couple of REITs to raise cash.
I like the idea of Primary Bid but the only option is to transfer your new shares to your trading account and I have already outlined why I do not think that is a good idea for REITs...
MW
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jester
Member of DD Central
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Post by jester on Mar 30, 2023 11:03:37 GMT
Bringing the REITS thread back to live as my basket of them has taken a battering as rates have increased. The likes of Warehouse, Supermarket and Primary Health Properties are down 30%+ hitting all time lows!!
So having done a little reading I'm actually thinking this is a potential buying opportunity, buy low sell high etc.
Warehouse appear to have solid occupancy and rent is actually up, Supermarkets and Medical needs aren't going anywhere so as long as the REITs can weather the high rate storm recovery could be expected.
Anyone else considering this an opportunity rather than a loss???
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Mar 30, 2023 14:04:16 GMT
yes looking to buy into these as I felt some were over valued.
But When I use knowledge I tend to end up losing if I buy on a hunch it often works
Look how many of the ones people have listed are up 3-4% TODAY.
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jester
Member of DD Central
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Post by jester on Apr 1, 2023 19:14:16 GMT
3-4% is nothing compared to how much many of REIT investments have dropped. 30% isn't uncommon!
Either way I'll have to see what the prices look like after 5Apr as any investment I choose to make will be in next years ISA wrapper.
Anyone else tempted by REITs at these prices, they've dropped by more than anything else in my portfolio but reviews I read suggest they are still performing strongly enough, it's just a by product of current high rates.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2023 19:52:59 GMT
Hold if you are holding.
Buy if you think Putin and Trump will lose.
Sell if you think Putin and Trump will win. Buy pasta and baked beans.
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Post by overthehill on Apr 1, 2023 20:04:44 GMT
Got out of REITs last time they all froze withdrawals. They were some shocking fund performers and I decided the returns weren't worth it even in good times. Fees, expenses and too many noses in the trough especially during difficult times, I've seen the same thing at property partner. Also got out of bonds at the same time, they were always going to get hammered given their past extended good performance due to low interest rates and the prospect of rising rates.
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