cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 19, 2019 9:32:45 GMT
If the LibDems believe that not splitting the Remain vote is that important, they could always choose not to field candidates and ask their supporters to vote for other Remain-supporting parties. In some areas, that may make sense. In other areas, it may make sense to focus on the LD candidates. That's kind of the whole point of working together... I accept that, but that idea appears to have been turned down by the other parties. LibDems could stick with their idea even where they're the bigger party if they really believe not splitting the Remain vote is the bigger issue.
I suspect both sides will have something to be happy about in the EU elections. Leave because the Brexit party will do well, Remain because the smaller parties will do better than usual (at the expense of Labour and the Tories, especially the Tories).
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 19, 2019 9:46:43 GMT
If the LibDems believe that not splitting the Remain vote is that important, they could always choose not to field candidates and ask their supporters to vote for other Remain-supporting parties. Perhaps the Photogenic Party, aka The Independent Group, aka (no) Change UK - can't even design a logo, never mind any policies. The ultimate in politics " vote for us as we look good on telly, but don't ask us what our policies are". That pretty much sums up Farage, UKIP and now The Brexit Party, who've had over 10 years to come up with something. Change UK has had just weeks - I'd give them a chance before lambasting them. As it is pretty obvious the basis on which most people will be voting in the Euro elections, then having clear leave parties (Tories, UKIP, Brexit) and remain parties (LibDem, Change UK, Green, SNP, PC) is probably quite helpful. Obviously I leave Labour out of that as their policy is still utterly opaque - one might be charitable and call them a "Soft Brexit Party" - but they are only soft for business (CU) not for people, as they want to remove our free movement rights. Also of interest is the latest ComRes poll (16 April): Remain 58% (+4) Leave 42% (-4) Biggest remain lead in 3 years - 16%.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 19, 2019 10:10:40 GMT
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 19, 2019 13:15:44 GMT
If the LibDems believe that not splitting the Remain vote is that important, they could always choose not to field candidates and ask their supporters to vote for other Remain-supporting parties. Perhaps the Photogenic Party, aka The Independent Group, aka (no) Change UK - can't even design a logo, never mind any policies. The ultimate in politics " vote for us as we look good on telly, but don't ask us what our policies are". Also of interest is the latest ComRes poll (16 April): Remain 58% (+4) Leave 42% (-4) Biggest remain lead in 3 years - 16%.
Hope you high earners are prepared for Labour getting in at the next GE after the Tories implode (it made me laugh when I read you'd listed the Tories amongst the Leave parties).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 19, 2019 13:27:02 GMT
(it made me laugh when I read you'd listed the Tories amongst the Leave parties). It's impossible to credibly suggest they're anything but.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 19, 2019 19:04:58 GMT
(it made me laugh when I read you'd listed the Tories amongst the Leave parties). It's impossible to credibly suggest they're anything but. Indeed - TM's deal is a hard Brexit after transition - no CU, no SM. The parameters since 2016 have just been shifted with some mysterious hand waving so that we are now supposed to believe that Brexit = no deal Brexit - which was never in the Leave proposition as presented in 2016.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 19, 2019 19:08:24 GMT
Also of interest is the latest ComRes poll (16 April): Remain 58% (+4) Leave 42% (-4) Biggest remain lead in 3 years - 16%.
Hope you high earners are prepared for Labour getting in at the next GE after the Tories implode (it made me laugh when I read you'd listed the Tories amongst the Leave parties).
I don't think Labour will get in. Can't without Scotland. Hung Parliaments is the new thing I suggest.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 19, 2019 22:08:17 GMT
I was in NHS for over 40 years managed to stop work at 58 and thanks to Mr Osborne managed to double the so called golden pension. During that time most people may have gotten a 1% pay annually but got several % points in incremental rises. After introduction of Agenda For change, Some may not have had as much but with my salary going from £60 a month from when I started to 3-5 times that a night. The introduction of Agenda for change resulted in crazy payments. I was a union rep and did get great payment protection for my membership but that didn’t make it right. Nowadays middle ranked staff band 5 and above have reasonable basic salary plus usually overtime. I worked from 9 am one day till 5pm the next. Now it’s 37.5 hrs a week with reasonable out of hours payments still some on very large protection. Here in Scotland my colleagues and I managed to get our protection for life unlike the limited protection in the rest of UK. In England due to tax difference you get more take home pay for the same work. All well and good, and AfC did produce some winners. But the stark truth is that: - For the same work my real earnings after inflation are down 25% - Austerity cuts are biting hard - after there had been a real and tangible improvement in the service over the decade prior - And current taxation means that I can earn the same by working 30% fewer hours. Good luck to the NHS recruiting and retaining senior doctors. The NHS' loss is our gain. I do feel an overwhelming sense of sadness that this is being replicated across the NHS although I haven't a clue as to how to solve it or, indeed, whether there are any answers, I suspect not.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 19, 2019 22:19:58 GMT
Opinion polls are one thing but what on Earth will the turnout look like? I guess most of the electorate are sick and tired of politics and Brexit dominating the news agenda so I'd be surprised if we saw a marked increase in turnout.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 20, 2019 7:14:13 GMT
Opinion polls are one thing but what on Earth will the turnout look like? I guess most of the electorate are sick and tired of politics and Brexit dominating the news agenda so I'd be surprised if we saw a marked increase in turnout. EU election turnout's historically been lousy. 2014 - 35.6%, 2009 - 34.7%, 2004 - 38.5%, 1999 - 24.0% Wouldn't surprise me at all if this year was actually the highest ever, perhaps even reaching the hitherto-unknown heights of only 3 in 5 not being bothered...
All the rabid brexiteers will be out there making protest votes for the unelected eurocrats, while all the people with their head screwed on properly will be out there trying to get somebody who'll actually do the job and send the message that we quite like being friends with the neighbours.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 20, 2019 7:49:22 GMT
Opinion polls are one thing but what on Earth will the turnout look like? I guess most of the electorate are sick and tired of politics and Brexit dominating the news agenda so I'd be surprised if we saw a marked increase in turnout. EU election turnout's historically been lousy. 2014 - 35.6%, 2009 - 34.7%, 2004 - 38.5%, 1999 - 24.0% Wouldn't surprise me at all if this year was actually the highest ever, perhaps even reaching the hitherto-unknown heights of only 3 in 5 not being bothered...
All the rabid brexiteers will be out there making protest votes for the unelected eurocrats, while all the people with their head screwed on properly will be out there trying to get somebody who'll actually do the job and send the message that we quite like being friends with the neighbours.
I had a third of the electorate in my head, which doesn't seem too far from the last turnout but less than a quarter bothered to vote in 1999. I hope you're right but I'd even settle for 50% at this juncture... A comparatively high turnout would imply voters are treating the election as a pseudo-referendum I guess.
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carolus
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Post by carolus on Apr 20, 2019 14:59:42 GMT
EU election turnout's historically been lousy. 2014 - 35.6%, 2009 - 34.7%, 2004 - 38.5%, 1999 - 24.0% Wouldn't surprise me at all if this year was actually the highest ever, perhaps even reaching the hitherto-unknown heights of only 3 in 5 not being bothered...
All the rabid brexiteers will be out there making protest votes for the unelected eurocrats, while all the people with their head screwed on properly will be out there trying to get somebody who'll actually do the job and send the message that we quite like being friends with the neighbours.
I had a third of the electorate in my head, which doesn't seem too far from the last turnout but less than a quarter bothered to vote in 1999. I hope you're right but I'd even settle for 50% at this juncture... A comparatively high turnout would imply voters are treating the election as a pseudo-referendum I guess. Key thing is that turnout has been historically lousy, but with markedly more enthusiasm for europhobic parties. This time around, for the first time, there's a much higher profile and organised pro-eu movement. My expectation (hope) is that this will help rebalance the scales.
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Post by captainconfident on Apr 21, 2019 14:51:37 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 21, 2019 15:32:02 GMT
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 21, 2019 21:57:21 GMT
Yeah, but the problem is the type of pub he frequents.
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