angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S
Posts: 1,332 
Likes: 789
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 26, 2019 11:01:19 GMT
I have run down my P2P holdings for a while now and apart from some money held in Zopa under the safeguard at 5% and a few loans on AC I cant sell I am out now. My main decision was I can earn 2% on a one year bank desposit vs the 5% I earn in P2P (low risk end of P2P). In my opinion the extra 3% per year isnt worth the risk at the moment. It has certainly been profitable for me over the years, I might return in a couple of years after I see how P2P weathers the financial storm that seems to be coming on the horizon.
|
|
m2btj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 772
|
Post by m2btj on Jan 26, 2019 13:25:58 GMT
I have run down my P2P holdings for a while now and apart from some money held in Zopa under the safeguard at 5% and a few loans on AC I cant sell I am out now. My main decision was I can earn 2% on a one year bank desposit vs the 5% I earn in P2P (low risk end of P2P). In my opinion the extra 3% per year isnt worth the risk at the moment. It has certainly been profitable for me over the years, I might return in a couple of years after I see how P2P weathers the financial storm that seems to be coming on the horizon. I can fully understand your logic. I sincerely hope that should you return in a couple of years the industry has learned the lessons of the last few years. I would like to see the cosy relationship between P2P companies & valuers come to an end. Some of the valuations have been nothing short of fantasy. The demise of Collateral should send shock waves throughout P2P & the regulatory authorities.
|
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on Jan 26, 2019 16:57:31 GMT
What about So Long P2P? I'm looking forward to hearing about what they have to offer. Is there a website?
Seriously though @angry, well miss you if you leave our community too. Perhaps you can run a thread on best bank accounts for retreating p2p investors?
|
|
ashtondav
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,814
Likes: 1,092
|
Post by ashtondav on Jan 26, 2019 18:02:12 GMT
I have run down my P2P holdings for a while now and apart from some money held in Zopa under the safeguard at 5% and a few loans on AC I cant sell I am out now. My main decision was I can earn 2% on a one year bank desposit vs the 5% I earn in P2P (low risk end of P2P). In my opinion the extra 3% per year isnt worth the risk at the moment. It has certainly been profitable for me over the years, I might return in a couple of years after I see how P2P weathers the financial storm that seems to be coming on the horizon. Trouble is 2% loses you money after inflation. GUARANTEED. i feel quite confident that RS, AC and LW - for example - will deliver more than 2% over the next five years, on average. Also I’ve made 6%+ in p2p over the last 5 years when BS rates were more like 1%. Therefore over a 10 year cycle I expect p2p to thrash BS rates - even if we do so see one or two years where defaults cause achieved rates to slip to 1% or 2%. Just can’t see the point of leaving.
|
|
|
|
Post by lotus_eater on Jan 27, 2019 13:40:40 GMT
People really need to get it into their skulls that P2P IS NOT some viable alternative to a bank account.
I think that's really the point isn't it? P2P is for investment capital we could afford to lose but we want a regular income from. Government insured bank account is for capital we can't afford to lose (except the loss to inflation of course) and that we might need access to relatively quickly. Stock market, bonds, metals and other somewhat volatile assets are for investment capital we shouldn't need to access for several years (so we don't have to take a loss on a pullback). That's the way I distribute my capital anyway.
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
Posts: 5,708
Likes: 2,985
|
Post by michaelc on Jan 27, 2019 15:34:19 GMT
P2P is for money you can afford to lose.
What is that then? The only money I can afford to lose is perhaps 0.1% of the total. That's not going to provide much of an income.
Even if I was a billionaire, I doubt I'd be happy losing 1%. "...well its only 10M no worries....".
To achieve an income that isn't pennies in comparison to the total pot, I'd need to invest money I'd be very pissed off losing. I "can't afford" to lose money I'd be very pissed off losing.
This phrase "afford to lose" phrase sounds very much like "independent"-financial-advisor speak to me. (People I avoid like the plague).
|
|
|
|
Post by lotus_eater on Jan 27, 2019 15:46:19 GMT
P2P is for money you can afford to lose. What is that then? The only money I can afford to lose is perhaps 0.1% of the total. That's not going to provide much of an income. Even if I was a billionaire, I doubt I'd be happy losing 1%. "...well its only 10M no worries....". To achieve an income that isn't pennies in comparison to the total pot, I'd need to invest money I'd be very pissed off losing. I "can't afford" to lose money I'd be very pissed off losing. This phrase "afford to lose" phrase sounds very much like "independent"-financial-advisor speak to me. (People I avoid like the plague). I see your point. It's really subjective though on how you interpret it and your own financial situation. No one wants to lose anything I'm sure. When I say it's "money I can afford to lose" it really means "money that if I lost, I wouldn't be on the streets and it wouldn't cause me to have to make any major lifestyle changes. It would hurt like hell but wouldn't bankrupt me." Kind of a long statement written that way though........
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on Jan 27, 2019 17:14:36 GMT
P2P is for money you can afford to lose. What is that then? This phrase "afford to lose" phrase sounds very much like "independent"-financial-advisor speak to me. (People I avoid like the plague).
The reason financial advisors use that phrase is becase of the very reason you are not grasping. It is sound, sensible advice. Only invest what you can afford to loose, simple as.
You only invest what you would otherwise be happy to throw away on the horses or lotto tickets.
You do not EVER invest (a) what you require to cover your critical liabilities (b) your emergency rainy-day funds (everyone should have a 'leaky roof' or 'what if I loose my job tomorrow' fund).
If it is money that you know you will need (not necessarily 'today' but, say, within 12 months) to pay the mortgage, feed the kids, pay the electricity bill, help pay for gran's care home etc. etc. etc. you DO NOT invest it.
It doesn't matter if you've got £1 or £10m in your bank account, the same rule applies.
Don't be greedy. It will only come back to bite you in the backside one day.
Thing is, I don't invest what I need for a) and b) and quite a bit more to spare. If I lost all my investments I could continue my current lifestyle. But I still wouldn't be happy throwing away the remaining money I do invest on horses or lottery tickets instead.
|
|
angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 789
|
Post by angrysaveruk on Jan 27, 2019 17:33:38 GMT
What about So Long P2P? I'm looking forward to hearing about what they have to offer. Is there a website? Seriously though @angry, well miss you if you leave our community too. Perhaps you can run a thread on best bank accounts for retreating p2p investors? Dont worry if the  hits the fan and I made the right decision I will be back to tell you I told you so 
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,046
Likes: 4,438
|
Post by agent69 on Jan 27, 2019 17:59:59 GMT
i feel quite confident that RS, AC and LW - for example - will deliver ......... Thats probably what the majority would have said about COL a year ago.
Bank / building society rates are currently poor, but it wasn't long ago that you could get 3% at Santander. 2% may become inflation beating if inflation goes down as predicted, and there are still plenty of places to get no risk inflation beating returns (bond ladders or regular savers), it just takes a bit of time and effort to set them up (which rules me out). Alternatively, the stock market has historically outperformed inflation.
The nice thing about mainstream financial institutions is that you know what you are going to get. With P2P the scope for unimagined problems that adverseley affect your returns know no bounds. Nobody predicted the demise of COL or the shenanigans at RS, where they took our money and gave it to people one rung up the ladder from loan sharks. If COL investors take a big hit, or if the lady progressing legal action on the London loan is successful, there could be a stampede for the P2P door.
P2P may look rosy now, but possibly not so if it ever reaches the end of your 10 year cycle
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,046
Likes: 4,438
|
Post by agent69 on Jan 27, 2019 18:37:24 GMT
there could be a stampede for the P2P door. However, amongst the known risks in P2P is one which agent69 inadvertedly higlighted above, namely liquidity risk.
You've only got to look at the SM's on Ly and MT to see how liquidity can dissapear almost overnight.
|
|
|
|
Post by dobbo on Jan 28, 2019 0:04:41 GMT
However, amongst the known risks in P2P is one which agent69 inadvertedly higlighted above, namely liquidity risk.
You've only got to look at the SM's on Ly and MT to see how liquidity can dissapear almost overnight. Do you think this affects a problem of systemic risk? One of the things which did for the world economy in 2008 was everyone pulling money out at the same time. Could the same thing happen to P2P as a concept? Remember when it felt like every news report had the word 'contagion' in it?
|
|
dandy
Posts: 427
Likes: 341
|
Post by dandy on Jan 28, 2019 11:08:10 GMT
best bank accounts for retreating p2p investors?
People really need to get it into their skulls that P2P IS NOT some viable alternative to a bank account.
The high percentage figures being "given" to you by the P2P platforms is not something being done out of the goodness of their hearts or as an attempt to "compete" with the banks.
The high percentage figures are a poor representation of the risk you are taking (in the vast majority of cases, those percentages should be much higher ... so much stuff in P2P is pure bargepole territory).
I think angrysaveruk is quite right to abandon P2P. I briefly dabbled in it and abandoned it too.
P2P is best compared to junk bonds, i.e. not for the inexperienced, which, regrettably many retail P2P "investors" are.
My advice would be to stick the capital you cannot afford to loose in a bank account (who cares about the interest rate, preservation of capital should be of utmost importance in protecting your uninvestible capital).
For the capital you are willing and able to invest, my answer would be the stockmarket. Not without risks for sure, but compared to the minefield wild-west of P2P its a no brainer. The stockmarket wins every time for a million and one reasons.
You need to get it into YOUR skull that NO ONE here thinks P2P is a bank account. You also need to get it into your skull that the points you make are utter nonsense. Most people know when they talk nonsense but you seem to believe it. Hypothesis: The stockmarket wins every time for a million and one reasons. 6 month Experiment: My Apple shares have declined by ~ 30%. My ratesetter portfolio has increased by ~ 3%. Result: The hypothesis is fundamentally false and misconceived and worthy of no further time wasting. Message to student: Try harder. F - Seeing as you go by the name of the street that brought the financial world to its knees, it is hardly surprising that you believe your own tosh
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,692
Likes: 3,018
|
Post by IFISAcava on Jan 28, 2019 11:49:29 GMT
People really need to get it into their skulls that P2P IS NOT some viable alternative to a bank account.
The high percentage figures being "given" to you by the P2P platforms is not something being done out of the goodness of their hearts or as an attempt to "compete" with the banks.
The high percentage figures are a poor representation of the risk you are taking (in the vast majority of cases, those percentages should be much higher ... so much stuff in P2P is pure bargepole territory).
I think angrysaveruk is quite right to abandon P2P. I briefly dabbled in it and abandoned it too.
P2P is best compared to junk bonds, i.e. not for the inexperienced, which, regrettably many retail P2P "investors" are.
My advice would be to stick the capital you cannot afford to loose in a bank account (who cares about the interest rate, preservation of capital should be of utmost importance in protecting your uninvestible capital).
For the capital you are willing and able to invest, my answer would be the stockmarket. Not without risks for sure, but compared to the minefield wild-west of P2P its a no brainer. The stockmarket wins every time for a million and one reasons.
You need to get it into YOUR skull that NO ONE here thinks P2P is a bank account. You also need to get it into your skull that the points you make are utter nonsense. Most people know when they talk nonsense but you seem to believe it. Hypothesis: The stockmarket wins every time for a million and one reasons. 6 month Experiment: My Apple shares have declined by ~ 30%. My ratesetter portfolio has increased by ~ 3%. Result: The hypothesis is fundamentally false and misconceived and worthy of no further time wasting. Message to student: Try harder. F - Seeing as you go by the name of the street that brought the financial world to its knees, it is hardly surprising that you believe your own tosh My long term share investments are returning approx 7% pa compounded. My P2P is returning similar after defaults, albeit I have been in for a much shorter time. There is more volatility in the shares return, but better guaranteed liquidity. I invest in both to diversify. It isn't an either/or.
|
|
r00lish67
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,692
Likes: 4,048
|
Post by r00lish67 on Jan 28, 2019 12:00:52 GMT
You need to get it into YOUR skull that NO ONE here thinks P2P is a bank account. You also need to get it into your skull that the points you make are utter nonsense. Most people know when they talk nonsense but you seem to believe it. Hypothesis: The stockmarket wins every time for a million and one reasons. 6 month Experiment: My Apple shares have declined by ~ 30%. My ratesetter portfolio has increased by ~ 3%. Result: The hypothesis is fundamentally false and misconceived and worthy of no further time wasting. Message to student: Try harder. F - Seeing as you go by the name of the street that brought the financial world to its knees, it is hardly surprising that you believe your own tosh
Yes, many people here think P2P is a bank account. I could point you to hundreds of posts that I've read over the time I've been here.
As for the rest of your post. Its not me talking nonsene, its you.
I'm not going to waste my time and energy explaining to you why your silly little '6 month experiment' is completely and utterly ludecrous and misguided.
There is no need for me to try harder. I've got the hard facts to prove it.
For what it's worth, you are talking sense in my view @wallstreet ,and dandy is being unnecessarily inflammatory as unfortunately he often is. Which is a shame, as he's a bright guy. I'm not going to start bickering on the matter, that's not why I raise it, but I would like to see you keep posting as I've found your views interesting. Re: the stock market, I agree equities are a far better proposition than P2P as long as we accept the caveats that we are talking about broad-based index tracking over the long term (5 years+) and not day-trading and/or investing in the latest 'hot shares'. I assume you were referring to the former sort of investing. Re: people's misconceptions of P2P. Absolutely. If I could be bothered, I could find countless references to people here who have said things like 'I'm using the QAA for my house deposit for a month or two' or "I use RS rolling for all of my spare cash as they've always given my money straight back before". If/when one of RS/LW/GS/AC QAA becomes locked in, there will be a tidal wave of people emerging from the cracks saying they were mis-sold etc etc. edit: Btw, i do also agree with IFISAcava that one need not replace the other. I invest in both, but much more tentatively in P2P!
|
|
hits the fan and I made the right decision I will be back to tell you I told you so 
