keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Sept 15, 2023 16:11:33 GMT
The China argument is, "They are not doing anything to save the planet, so I won't either". But we all live on the planet. I object to being categorised as left wing. I am about as middle-of-the-road as you can get. Go on I'll ask, where do you see yourself compared to Joe Biden ?
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 15, 2023 16:11:59 GMT
I object to being categorised as left wing. I am about as middle-of-the-road as you can get. Fair enough, but perhaps you should expect that categorisation if you directly juxtapose "right-wing" and "normal" ...
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 15, 2023 16:24:07 GMT
So I looked up the per head figures and they are 5.7 and 7.7 for the UK and China respectively. Really not a million miles between them so I'm afraid I don't agree with Berny as we're both per-head in the same ballpark. I don't particularly agree with the prevailing view of climate change in general but if I did, it would seem unfair to penalise large population countries just because they are large. It would seem fairer to broadly have every country work to the same per-person CO2 emissions per capita per year.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 15, 2023 16:35:10 GMT
The China argument is, "They are not doing anything to save the planet, so I won't either". But we all live on the planet. I object to being categorised as left wing. I am about as middle-of-the-road as you can get. Go on I'll ask, where do you see yourself compared to Joe Biden ? I'd offer up Ken Clarke and David Gauke as models of where I stand on most things. But primarily I stand for pragmatic answers rather than politicised pandering as the Telegraph offers here. Everyone moderating their behaviour a bit to avert further climate change should be a simple choice, but not to a section of society who would stop eating salad if a lefty ate a lettuce.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 15, 2023 16:53:25 GMT
[So I looked up the per head figures and they are 5.7 and 7.7 for the UK and China respectively. Really not a million miles between them so I'm afraid I don't agree with Berny as we're both per-head in the same ballpark. I don't particularly agree with the prevailing view of climate change in general but if I did, it would seem unfair to penalise large population countries just because they are large. It would seem fairer to broadly have every country work to the same per-person CO2 emissions per capita per year. looking at www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/we are below most of the more developed countries in Europe. interestingly below Norway where we import a lot of Green energy from, and just over 1/3 of the Americans. According to my EPC the Average Household in the UK is 6 Tonnes of CO2, my is currently said to be 5.5 Tonnes, but that is based on my house using 20,000 kWh of gas a year when I actually use < 10,000 they say at EPC rating of B I would be down to 2.2 Tonnes. Whats the relevance well the figures per capita say 5.6 Tonnes in the UK. if the average house is 6 and lets say 2.3 occupants ( 29 Million Properties, 69 Million residents). this means that housing in the UK is 6/2.3 ie 2.6 tonnes per head. if every house were upgraded to a B EPC at 2.3 tonnes that would be 1 tonne per head ie a reduction of 1.6 Tonnes or 28% At 4 Tonnes per head we would be below the world average and the average person in the UK would have a much more comfortable house, and the cost of heating those properties would be 50% less than now. isn't that something we should aspire to
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 15, 2023 17:08:21 GMT
Go on I'll ask, where do you see yourself compared to Joe Biden ? I'd offer up Ken Clarke and David Gauke as models of where I stand on most things. I make that a little to the left of Biden. LOL it's one of the things I see with American politics they have a right wing party and a further right party. Some may describe Biden as left wing but I see him to the right of the likes of Cameron and probably politically aligned with May or Johnson. I see the influencer generation as responsible for some of the issues, I'm old enough that the US or Australia would be once in a lifetime, but you see these muppets updating their "insta" with at the airport off to LA for the weekend, pictures of the new SUV etc, and far to many of the sheep think that is what they should aspire to.
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 15, 2023 17:19:46 GMT
So I looked up the per head figures and they are 5.7 and 7.7 for the UK and China respectively. Really not a million miles between them so I'm afraid I don't agree with Berny as we're both per-head in the same ballpark. I don't particularly agree with the prevailing view of climate change in general but if I did, it would seem unfair to penalise large population countries just because they are large. It would seem fairer to broadly have every country work to the same per-person CO2 emissions per capita per year. Two problems with this. If the world doesn't come down heavier on the worst offending countries, the climate crisis will worsen, so yes the larger population countries will have to face up to their responsibilities. Nobody else can reduce their monstrous emissions but them. Secondly, even taking their per-capita emissions as the yardstick, China's 7.7 continues to increase at the rate of 15% every four years, while our 5.7 reduces by 12% in the same timescale. That difference cannot be excused, nor explained away so easily. The worst polluting nations should at the very minimum be leading the way, per-capita. Using your logic, Australia is one of the world's worst polluters at 16.5, as is tiny Gibraltar at 18.1. Yet Australia's overall emissions contribution is similar to ours - another tiny minnow on the global scale - while Gibraltar emits next to nothing. Are we really going to wait around until theirs comes down 'per capita' before the real big fish like China actually do something positive? We don't have time for that nonsense. Ireland, at 8.2, outstrips China. Does anybody seriously believe Ireland should be reducing their global emission footprint before China does a stroke? Then there's economies of scale to consider. All things being equal, large populations should be able to operate at lower emissions per head. Constructing one power station, or stadium, factory complex, shopping centre, etc, for 100,000 people doesn't emit ten times more than constructing the same structure for 10,000, for example. So 'per capita' alone doesn't give a full picture. I concluded some time ago that this 'per capita' view is a spurious diversion and a dangerous way to look at the problem. It lets China, the worst offender by far, straight off the hook.
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 15, 2023 17:25:10 GMT
I'd offer up Ken Clarke and David Gauke as models of where I stand on most things. I make that a little to the left of Biden. LOL it's one of the things I see with American politics they have a right wing party and a further right party. Some may describe Biden as left wing but I see him to the right of the likes of Cameron and probably politically aligned with May or Johnson. I see the influencer generation as responsible for some of the issues, I'm old enough that the US or Australia would be once in a lifetime, but you see these muppets updating their "insta" with at the airport off to LA for the weekend, pictures of the new SUV etc, and far to many of the sheep think that is what they should aspire to. Nothing wrong with aspiring to it, but I think we've made getting credit too easy. Too many with champagne tastes and beer money and they wind up in debt.
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Post by captainconfident on Sept 15, 2023 17:28:50 GMT
I'd offer up Ken Clarke and David Gauke as models of where I stand on most things. I make that a little to the left of Biden. LOL it's one of the things I see with American politics they have a right wing party and a further right party. Some may describe Biden as left wing but I see him to the right of the likes of Cameron and probably politically aligned with May or Johnson. I see the influencer generation as responsible for some of the issues, I'm old enough that the US or Australia would be once in a lifetime, but you see these muppets updating their "insta" with at the airport off to LA for the weekend, pictures of the new SUV etc, and far to many of the sheep think that is what they should aspire to. I sort of mentally added to that list Nick Clegg, but deleted that so as not to stir up any hornets. In a fairer system, a centre party like the Lib Dems would have had representation relative to the size of their vote and would have attracted intelligent influential people. But centre is crushed by the left-right two party system. Of course I always bang on about PR, and this is the real reason, to allow the creation of a pragmatic centre party. Take this for instance, my dream is to be able to vote for a party ith which I wholeheartedly agreed: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrats_66
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 15, 2023 17:39:41 GMT
Ah Nick Clegg, to whom, as a pensioner, I'm very grateful, being the architect insistent on the pensions triple lock. That largesse measure that was always completely unaffordable and stored up so much trouble ahead... Yes, we need more like him!
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Post by bracknellboy on Sept 17, 2023 8:15:38 GMT
Back to the subject of this years significant abnormality/step change in Antarctic sea ice coverage. The abnormality has continued into mid September: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms expertsApologies in advance to any sensitive souls: a) its a BBC article, so lets be clear up front that it's simply 'more propaganda' b) it contains an updated version of that graph, you know the one that is "nonsense" and doesn't show what "you'd want it to show", (original source: the National Snow and Ice Data Centre, University of Colorado). Personally I'd prefer it didn't show any reduction in the ice coverage at all, but heh. No mention or piccies of cute penguins in this article though.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Sept 18, 2023 21:03:25 GMT
Back to the subject of this years significant abnormality/step change in Antarctic sea ice coverage. The abnormality has continued into mid September: Antarctic sea-ice at 'mind-blowing' low alarms expertsApologies in advance to any sensitive souls: a) its a BBC article, so lets be clear up front that it's simply 'more propaganda' b) it contains an updated version of that graph, you know the one that is "nonsense" and doesn't show what "you'd want it to show", (original source: the National Snow and Ice Data Centre, University of Colorado). Personally I'd prefer it didn't show any reduction in the ice coverage at all, but heh. No mention or piccies of cute penguins in this article though. Well just today we have this "unbiased" headline focusing on one side of the deal. : www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-66841137We also have of course the news that the BBC were sending chauffeur driven cars to a school (a school for heaven's sake) in order that Mr Brand could allegedly take advantage of a pupil. And that's all I read from them today. But you carry on enjoying their content you're all but forced to pay for.....
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Post by martin44 on Sept 27, 2023 17:37:41 GMT
Ah Nick Clegg, to whom, as a pensioner, I'm very grateful, being the architect insistent on the pensions triple lock. That largesse measure that was always completely unaffordable and stored up so much trouble ahead... Yes, we need more like him! He's got a book i saw in a charitry shop recently "How to stop brexit" he could write a few more books from my recollection ... "why not to build nuclear power stations"... and "why i will cancel university fees but wont"
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 25, 2023 19:00:59 GMT
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 8, 2024 17:55:56 GMT
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