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Post by honda2ner on Mar 27, 2019 21:22:38 GMT
Not a bug. It's a badly thought through attempt to limit information to only lenders that have capital left in suspended loans, not a bad idea, just clumsily done. As has already been stated, this means that lenders with unpaid interest in a loan are unable to see any information either. This means they are discriminated against because they were bright enough to get out of a loan before it got suspended. That's not a group of people it's wise to annoy.
I'm sure this daftness is not intentional and hopefully AC will tweak things so that anyone with outstanding interest in a suspended loan can, at least, SEE what is going on, even if they can't contribute by asking questions in the Q&A.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 27, 2019 23:16:07 GMT
I think it's a bad move by AC. I'm fortunate not to have been caught up in the I** loans for example, but would like to know how AC deal with them because it may give an indication of how they'll deal with loans I am in that are in difficulties (e.g. 227)
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Post by hammertime on Mar 28, 2019 9:57:31 GMT
Last i heard all money from I*** loans is to be paid back in full with interest within 2/3 months.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Mar 28, 2019 15:33:15 GMT
Last I heard no information regarding any possible resolution of I** loans that was available for public discussion.
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Post by df on Mar 28, 2019 15:45:25 GMT
I think it's a bad move by AC. I'm fortunate not to have been caught up in the I** loans for example, but would like to know how AC deal with them because it may give an indication of how they'll deal with loans I am in that are in difficulties (e.g. 227) I wouldn't count on it (re 227), the approach AC has taken to resolve I** issue is unique to this particular loan/s.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Mar 28, 2019 16:36:43 GMT
I think it's a bad move by AC. I'm fortunate not to have been caught up in the I** loans for example, but would like to know how AC deal with them because it may give an indication of how they'll deal with loans I am in that are in difficulties (e.g. 227) I wouldn't count on it (re 227), the approach AC has taken to resolve I** issue is unique to this particular loan/s. May be so, but my point was a general one - if I can't see how AC deal with bad loans that I'm not in it stops me surmising how they might deal with bad loans I am in.
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Post by roandy55 on Mar 29, 2019 17:23:42 GMT
This is actually  annoying. I have about 10 suspended loans left in my GBBA1 and IFISA GBBA2 accounts, some with accrued interest but all with a balance of either 0 or <0.01. I would very much like to see some indication of when they are likely to be cleared from my account. |
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 3, 2019 17:24:01 GMT
AC have today refused to send me the email update on loan #327 where I have £0 holdings (having sold out of it in the MLA a while back) but £113.05 accrued interest. Imo I still have a financial interest in this loan, so want to see the update. Formal complaint on its way.
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 3, 2019 18:08:20 GMT
AC have today refused to send me the email update on loan #327 where I have £0 holdings (having sold out of it in the MLA a while back) but £113.05 accrued interest. Imo I still have a financial interest in this loan, so want to see the update. Formal complaint on its way. I can't see the logic in AC blocking access to the updates given the amount of accrued interest.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Apr 4, 2019 8:52:44 GMT
AC have today refused to send me the email update on loan #327 where I have £0 holdings (having sold out of it in the MLA a while back) but £113.05 accrued interest. Imo I still have a financial interest in this loan, so want to see the update. Formal complaint on its way. If you have £0 holdings then surely you can't vote on any proposals, so you're at the mercy of whatever the current holders of the loan decide and have no say in the matter.
It could reasonably be said that the reason that holders of the loan are given more detailed information is to allow them to make an informed decision when any vote occurs.
What decision would the updates on this loan help you to make?
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on Apr 4, 2019 9:04:31 GMT
AC have today refused to send me the email update on loan #327 where I have £0 holdings (having sold out of it in the MLA a while back) but £113.05 accrued interest. Imo I still have a financial interest in this loan, so want to see the update. Formal complaint on its way. If you have £0 holdings then surely you can't vote on any proposals, so you're at the mercy of whatever the current holders of the loan decide and have no say in the matter.
It could reasonably be said that the reason that holders of the loan are given more detailed information is to allow them to make an informed decision when any vote occurs.
What decision would the updates on this loan help you to make?
I think the whole system is wrong and that is should be based on whether the Borrower owes the Lender money, not whether it's a holding or accrued interest.
As I've just emailed AC:
For sake of argument in the next question, I’ve assumed the minimum holding (to get updates) is something low, e.g. £10.
Assume
-person A has £20 holding in loan X and £5 accrued interest, hence is owed £25 by the Borrower
-person B has £0 holding in loan X (having sold out) but still has £100 accrued interest, hence is owed £100 by the Borrower
Q: Is it not unfair that person A receives the email update, whereas person B does not receive the email update despite being owed four times as much money by the Borrower?
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It's not about decisions as such (as you say, I'm currently unable to vote), rather I want to see what AC are doing to recover my £113.05 (accrued interest). Seems odd to me that I don't get the update whilst somebody with a much lower holding (£1?) does get to see (and vote)
Assume
-person A has £20 holding in loan X and £5 accrued interest, hence is owed £25 by the Borrower
-person B has £0 holding in loan X (having sold out) but still has £100 accrued interest, hence is owed £100 by the Borrower
3. Is it not unfair that person A receives the email update, whereas person B does not receive the email update despite being owed four times as much money by the Borrower?
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jlend
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Post by jlend on Apr 4, 2019 9:46:21 GMT
AC have today refused to send me the email update on loan #327 where I have £0 holdings (having sold out of it in the MLA a while back) but £113.05 accrued interest. Imo I still have a financial interest in this loan, so want to see the update. Formal complaint on its way. If you have £0 holdings then surely you can't vote on any proposals, so you're at the mercy of whatever the current holders of the loan decide and have no say in the matter.
It could reasonably be said that the reason that holders of the loan are given more detailed information is to allow them to make an informed decision when any vote occurs.
What decision would the updates on this loan help you to make?
I find myself in a similar situation with a different loan where I have a 3 figure accured interest amount but no access to information. I can't speak for others. For me it is preventing me from assessing the likelyhood of any future recovery of interest over time, however unlikely. This prevents me from making decisions on whether to expect any of it or not and subsequent actions I may wish to take. Over several loans this could add up to a considerable amount over time, several thousand pounds. At the very least I would like to see the updates so I can see what is going on, especially any votes or AC actions that impact future recovery of interest, however unlikely that may be. I appreciate others may be less interested in getting updates on accrued interest.
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Post by mrclondon on Apr 4, 2019 10:00:46 GMT
Taking the point that cb25 and jlend make to a logical conclusion:
If I can't see that efforts are being undertaken to recover my accrued interest, I have to assume that no efforts are being made. Why would I invest through a platform that I'm forced to assume is making no effort to recover money I am owed ?
I've recently restarted lending through MLA after a gap of a year or so, but am now having second thoughts. (My concern is primarily that of my previous post - being blocked from accessing info on other loans to a borrower that I'm lending to).
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Apr 4, 2019 12:14:30 GMT
It seems to me that the fundamental problem is that AC have "simplified" the market by not transferring the accrued interest with the loan part.
In the normal stock market, the only time that shares are transferred without rights to the full dividend is at the point a dividend is in the process of being distributed. For bonds, the price is adjusted to reflect accrued interest. Zopa's original P2P model also transferred accrued interest to the buyer (but didn't compensate the seller for it; it was just an additional "hidden" fee for selling and an undisclosed added bonus for the buyer [unless the loan defaults and never clears the interest arrears]).
RateSetter's model pays the seller for accrued interest at the same time as the capital. Abundance (the first regulated crowdfunding platform according to an old email I dug up) also transfers all accrued benefits to the buyer (and that's part of the price negotiation).
From what I can gather, AC's policy of accounting for accrued interest separately to the capital adds massively to the complexity of their systems, but has the benefit of a "simpler" pricing policy - when accrued interest is retained by the seller, nobody needs to determine what premium should be added to allow trade at a fair price.
In effect, there are two separate investment classes - the "capital" investment class which can be traded at until or unless trading is suspended, and has full voting rights, and the "interest" investment class which is untradeable and has no voting rights.
As long as interest arrears is always cleared before capital repayments, that seems analogous to the structure of companies - shareholders have full voting rights, bondholders have no voting rights but must be paid first... I'm not sure that is always the case though?
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Post by samford71 on Apr 5, 2019 8:00:49 GMT
sl75. Quite correct. This issue is being caused by AC's poor design of their secondary market. In every other bond or tradeable loan market in the world,when you buy/sell the principal, you also buy/sell the accrued interest. The buyer/seller always get the dirty price (clean price + accrued). In cases of default, voting can be done based on principal since everyone will have the same accrued (thus it can be ignored in terms of voting rights). I think this comes down to having tech people not really understanding the basics of things like loans/bonds. As you say, they have effectively separated two cashflow classes (principal and accrued) when they should always be kept together. My AC portfolio is littered with loans where I have accrued but no principal. Utterly silly.
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annoying. I have about 10 suspended loans left in my GBBA1 and IFISA GBBA2 accounts, some with accrued interest but all with a balance of either 0 or <0.01. I would very much like to see some indication of when they are likely to be cleared from my account.
