arby
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Post by arby on Mar 22, 2019 18:12:55 GMT
On two currently-funding loans there are minimum bid amounts (set at £500 and £250). fundingsecure , while it is clearly your right to run the platform as you wish, it is also clear from looking at the investment profile of recently funded loans that this change will impact ~65% of investors by number and ~20% by value of investment (that's based on £250 minimum, would be larger for £500). Given the slow funding of loans I'm not convinced it's smart to restrict funding, or, if you really insist on a £250 minimum, at least allow £25 increments above that. These restrictions will also stop people 'topping up' an investment they've already made with an additional £100 or so (or is it only me who does that?)
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 22, 2019 18:39:57 GMT
Just a guess but presumably customer services becomes a lot cheaper to run when you have fewer customers....
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Post by df on Mar 22, 2019 19:10:04 GMT
Just a guess but presumably customer services becomes a lot cheaper to run when you have fewer customers.... My guess is they already have fewer active customers. The ones who quit and waiting for repayments won't disappear until recoveries are complete. I'm not sure what the strategy is. Will FS stop dealing with pawn and become "property only" platform? I still don't understand the rationale behind painting London taxis and other moves (e.g. 12 month loans without monthly interest repayments). I wish FS communicated their strategy/intentions so we know what to expect in future and adjust our strategies/expectations accordingly... things like £500 minimum bid just come out of the blue.
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james21
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Post by james21 on Mar 22, 2019 19:48:20 GMT
I think its a good thing, if anyone has sold on the secondary market and had £25 or £50 bought its a joke, too much admin, minimums should apply though I think about £200 should be a starting point
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p2ploser
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Post by p2ploser on Mar 22, 2019 20:21:59 GMT
On two currently-funding loans there are minimum bid amounts (set at £500 and £250). fundingsecure , while it is clearly your right to run the platform as you wish, it is also clear from looking at the investment profile of recently funded loans that this change will impact ~65% of investors by number and ~20% by value of investment (that's based on £250 minimum, would be larger for £500). Given the slow funding of loans I'm not convinced it's smart to restrict funding, or, if you really insist on a £250 minimum, at least allow £25 increments above that. These restrictions will also stop people 'topping up' an investment they've already made with an additional £100 or so (or is it only me who does that?) I would count this as a blessing in disguise, saving the unwise from themselves
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arby
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Post by arby on Mar 22, 2019 20:28:07 GMT
I think its a good thing, if anyone has sold on the secondary market and had £25 or £50 bought its a joke, too much admin, minimums should apply though I think about £200 should be a starting point Too much admin for whom? Nobody is making you pay attention to the small amounts for sale so that's irrelevant. There are plenty of people in the world who feel that £200 isn't worth logging in for, yet for you that is about the right starting point. Personally, I feel about the same, but I appreciate the flexibility that I currently make use of which ranges from ~£100 for loans where I feel its worth a punt simply to diversify, ranging up to £3k which is my single max exposure. My point is that FS making repeated changes without prior communication or apparent consideration of the impacts doesn't feel right. This change was made mid-funding of the loan even, that clearly implies this wasn't something planned in advance.
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arby
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Post by arby on Mar 22, 2019 20:28:53 GMT
On two currently-funding loans there are minimum bid amounts (set at £500 and £250). fundingsecure , while it is clearly your right to run the platform as you wish, it is also clear from looking at the investment profile of recently funded loans that this change will impact ~65% of investors by number and ~20% by value of investment (that's based on £250 minimum, would be larger for £500). Given the slow funding of loans I'm not convinced it's smart to restrict funding, or, if you really insist on a £250 minimum, at least allow £25 increments above that. These restrictions will also stop people 'topping up' an investment they've already made with an additional £100 or so (or is it only me who does that?) I would count this as a blessing in disguise, saving the unwise from themselves Or encouraging them to have even more exposure...
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Post by df on Mar 22, 2019 20:40:14 GMT
I think its a good thing, if anyone has sold on the secondary market and had £25 or £50 bought its a joke, too much admin, minimums should apply though I think about £200 should be a starting point On Abl or AC, for example, one can trade as little or as much as they want and their SM's work well. Does it really take a lot of admin time to sell in small increments?
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Post by mrclondon on Mar 22, 2019 20:46:25 GMT
I think its a good thing, if anyone has sold on the secondary market and had £25 or £50 bought its a joke, too much admin, minimums should apply though I think about £200 should be a starting point Yes, but there is a counter argument.
I sometimes miss the launch of new loans, or fail to convince myself of the merits of the loan in time, and then buy on the SM. It is very rare for there to be good sized blocks on the SM (partly because the bonus structure discourages selling them) but there is often lots and lots and lots of £25, £50 and £75 bits .... which with patience can be purchased and do ultimately add up to a sizable chunk. Min bid sizes on the PM is as bg said likely to encourage a more considered approach to investing, which may mean fewer resales on the SM in the early part of a loans life.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Mar 22, 2019 22:46:17 GMT
I was chatting to another platform recently (not FS) who said that the vast majority of their lender questions / complaints / abuse came from those with the smallest stakes in the loans concerned. I’ve no doubt the same will be true for FS. Yes this is exactly right. For some reason its the smallest investors (ie those with a few £25 investments in loans) who are constantly on the phone asking for updates, threatening legal action etc. There is also the argument that these are very high risk investments and are not really suitable for people spraying £25 into a few loans. There's little incentive for people to do any DD or get a handle of the risks for this sort of investment and just creates a load of hassle for the platform. If they make it £500 minimum per loan (say) then perhaps a lot more people will think before investing. I find this comment (the bit I’ve highlighted) a bit unbelievable what evidence is it based on? What’s this, a May moment, blame the investors why don’t you? P2P started out with Zopa in the UK and a concept of social lending – match lenders to borrowers through an on-line platform and win win win - platform profits, borrowers get lower rates than through traditional financial institutions and investors get better rates. Whilst the social element has virtually evaporated, and the sector has moved on in other ways, I don’t see that it should be aiming to exclude retail investors, turn into a 'nanny state', or to be the preserve of the rich investor. I don’t invest on FS and have no axe to grind with them at all, I am using them (because you posted on their board) as an example which could equally apply to other P2P Platforms. FS started off with pawn loans I believe and no doubt welcomed and encouraged as many investors as it could get, and as BH’s have stated here and on other platforms £25 bids aren’t worth getting out of bed for, it’s a good job there were a few minnows investing or the Platform wouldn’t have got established. I believe it’s performance on communicating (generally) with investors and some of its pawn loans has been pretty atrocious so maybe that’s a source of all the ‘minnows’ complaints? Probably not an issue for BH’s and underwriters who seem to get privileged information from the platforms. Assuming FS isn’t a fly by night P2P set up, out for a quick buck, and it’s in it for the long term then surely it needs to develop systems and strategies to deal with any complaints it gets, which should include communication, ‘education’, and performance, but not in my opinion trying to exclude some investors. In addition, I am sure there must also be techniques in any company environment for dealing with ‘difficult’ customers, who I bet come in all sorts. I see a lot in the sector to complain about and in my view it’s a good thing because it needs to be held 'to account', and has and is slowly improving the sector as a whole. On a personal note I’m a vanilla minnow retail investor, but I certainly don’t meet your stereotype I’ve only ever telephoned one platform and that was AC concerning their 2FA – I didn’t submit a formal complaint though. I have contacted a fair few about mistakes and issues with my account, as I should have done if I wanted the correct interest amount paid or deposits traced etc. So, should I be excluded from P2P lending, or should platforms be encouraged to make their lending and businesses more suitable for all? Having been around here long enough I’d also say there are a fair few self-proclaimed BH’s who take whinging to a whole new level, and even threaten the volunteer forum ‘staff’ with litigation, let alone the platforms, it certainly doesn’t seem to be the preserve of retail minnows to me.
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arby
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Post by arby on Mar 22, 2019 23:17:23 GMT
Star dust, it's a clear understatement when I say I couldn't have said it better myself. You managed to put into words why it just feels "wrong" to me for a platform to exclude two thirds of its investors, particularly when they are the type of investors that established the platform. However, it is a business and is allowed to make whatever decision is felt to be in its best interest, just as we are all free to choose how to respond to the decisions
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 23, 2019 3:19:49 GMT
I will be happy to sell my share in small lots (for a small premium ) when loans fill.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Mar 23, 2019 6:21:56 GMT
I will be happy to sell my share in small lots (for a small premium ) when loans fill. It would be pretty pointless FS setting a minimum bid size on the PM and then not setting the same minimum bid size on the SM.
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bg
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Post by bg on Mar 23, 2019 7:40:43 GMT
Yes this is exactly right. For some reason its the smallest investors (ie those with a few £25 investments in loans) who are constantly on the phone asking for updates, threatening legal action etc. There is also the argument that these are very high risk investments and are not really suitable for people spraying £25 into a few loans. There's little incentive for people to do any DD or get a handle of the risks for this sort of investment and just creates a load of hassle for the platform. If they make it £500 minimum per loan (say) then perhaps a lot more people will think before investing. I find this comment (the bit I’ve highlighted) a bit unbelievable what evidence is it based on? What’s this, a May moment, blame the investors why don’t you? P2P started out with Zopa in the UK and a concept of social lending – match lenders to borrowers through an on-line platform and win win win - platform profits, borrowers get lower rates than through traditional financial institutions and investors get better rates. Whilst the social element has virtually evaporated, and the sector has moved on in other ways, I don’t see that it should be aiming to exclude retail investors, turn into a 'nanny state', or to be the preserve of the rich investor. I don’t invest on FS and have no axe to grind with them at all, I am using them (because you posted on their board) as an example which could equally apply to other P2P Platforms. FS started off with pawn loans I believe and no doubt welcomed and encouraged as many investors as it could get, and as BH’s have stated here and on other platforms £25 bids aren’t worth getting out of bed for, it’s a good job there were a few minnows investing or the Platform wouldn’t have got established. I believe it’s performance on communicating (generally) with investors and some of its pawn loans has been pretty atrocious so maybe that’s a source of all the ‘minnows’ complaints? Probably not an issue for BH’s and underwriters who seem to get privileged information from the platforms. Assuming FS isn’t a fly by night P2P set up, out for a quick buck, and it’s in it for the long term then surely it needs to develop systems and strategies to deal with any complaints it gets, which should include communication, ‘education’, and performance, but not in my opinion trying to exclude some investors. In addition, I am sure there must also be techniques in any company environment for dealing with ‘difficult’ customers, who I bet come in all sorts. I see a lot in the sector to complain about and in my view it’s a good thing because it needs to be held 'to account', and has and is slowly improving the sector as a whole. On a personal note I’m a vanilla minnow retail investor, but I certainly don’t meet your stereotype I’ve only ever telephoned one platform and that was AC concerning their 2FA – I didn’t submit a formal complaint though. I have contacted a fair few about mistakes and issues with my account, as I should have done if I wanted the correct interest amount paid or deposits traced etc. So, should I be excluded from P2P lending, or should platforms be encouraged to make their lending and businesses more suitable for all? Having been around here long enough I’d also say there are a fair few self-proclaimed BH’s who take whinging to a whole new level, and even threaten the volunteer forum ‘staff’ with litigation, let alone the platforms, it certainly doesn’t seem to be the preserve of retail minnows to me. It's based on conversations with a number of platforms, that is what they say. I'm sorry but I don't have documented evidence of calls by investment size. It's also the reason the likes of BC have £5k minimum investment per loan. If you think I sound like Theresa May then I feel I'm within my rights to say you sound like Jeremy Corbyn, "for the many not the few". It's capitalism, not some sort of social enterprise. It's not relevant how P2P (or FS) started out, it's a business and everyone is in it to make money; lenders, borrowers and the platforms. FS has recently changed ownership and he wants to go in a different direction and that's his call. FS is clearly not a platform for inexperienced, small retail investors and this is a step in that direction (in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the FCA eventually brings in minimum investment sizes for self select loans) I find this comment (the bit I’ve highlighted) a bit unbelievable what evidence is it based on? Twist it how you like but I haven't set any stereotype. I said it's the smallest investors who complain the most, that does not mean that all small investors are constantly kicking up a fuss. As with most things the small vocal minority to cause the greatest waves.
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Mar 23, 2019 10:33:03 GMT
I will be happy to sell my share in small lots (for a small premium ) when loans fill. It would be pretty pointless FS setting a minimum bid size on the PM and then not setting the same minimum bid size on the SM. They never restrict the SM the point is to fill it quickly. They would do better to offer bonuses at 0.1% per £100 for first £1000 then .1% per £5000 after that iand reduce primary % rate by 1% this would give the advantage to those that like to buy and hold but don’t have a lot of money.
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