aju
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Post by aju on Apr 10, 2019 16:31:42 GMT
Okay so I've spent the last day or so deciding that I need to get a faster exit on our Zopa loans as its become too time consuming and laborious to remove on relend off, quite apart from being so slow too.
So I took the plunge on my Invest account today. I did the Plus first and was concerned I may be locked out as it said relend would be turned off. In the past doing this sort of thing - albeit moving Invest Classic loans to ISA - I was locked out for the time it took to complete sometime over 2 weeks.
When I did the plus I thought I would have to wait to do the Core one - I'll keep the classic as its SG covered. Thing is it after I completed the plus I still have complete access to my zopa screens for Invest so I thought okay I'll do the core as well and lo and behold it accepted it.
So my question would be is that ok to withdraw loans on more than one product at once. I guess I'll find out soon enough but if anyone else has any experience of doing this then feel free to let me know how it went.
I also want to remove cash from the ISA sides too - I'm not sure how to move money from one Zopa ISA product only to an external RS ISA or better some amounts. It's not really a problem as I don't have spare cash so just moving it manually from Zopa to, in my case our RS ISA's will be fine as its just shunting money from one ISA to another so the loss of the 2 tax benefits is irrelevant. There is a slight issue in that I will be reducing our p2p levels too and putting it in safer places, hopefully.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Apr 10, 2019 16:53:20 GMT
You simply request RS to transfer the isa from Zopa to RS. You don’t lose any tax benefit!
You do lose the benefit if you withdraw the money from the Zopa isa and then open a RS isa.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 10, 2019 17:07:59 GMT
I don't know how the new sell loan button from "Access your money" works exactly? Not really sure if you are selling multiple products at once. I assume all the money after selling fees will be returned in the holding account for withdrawal.
My experience: Zopa always prompts the maximum amount available to sell even if the loans are in arrears, but of course those arrears cannot be sold. I withdrew money asap even the sale request had not finished the request.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 10, 2019 17:21:34 GMT
You simply request RS to transfer the isa from Zopa to RS. You don’t lose any tax benefit! You do lose the benefit if you withdraw the money from the Zopa isa and then open a RS isa. Thanks ashtondav , I probably should have been more explicit in that I can afford to withdraw it from the Zopa ISA and just reinvest it into the RS ISA in fact I'm moving it a bit more that that in that being over subscribed I want to put some of my ISA funds into Mrs Aju's account too and move some to a non ISA- We got a bit over zealous last year. One of the reason I am doing it this way also is I could not see how I could direct the ISA movement from specific products in Zopa to RS. None of the forms seemed to be appropriate for what I was trying to achieve. As I said I have no more money to invest in ISA so just moving it from Zopa to RS was not an Issue subscription wise or wealth/tax wise. I've already got our RS ISA's open and the money in Zopa is last years subs. I don't have any more money to increase our subs this year so it seemed simplest to just do this manually. Have you done this before from P2P to P2P and also only moving certain products rather than all. Zopa has certain rules when moving ISA's too in that if its not all sold it could be moved from ISA to non ISA.(I can;t now find that last bit so perhaps they have changed their selling functions.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 10, 2019 17:34:19 GMT
I don't know how the new sell loan button from "Access your money" works exactly? Not really sure if you are selling multiple products at once. I assume all the money after selling fees will be returned in the holding account for withdrawal. My experience: Zopa always prompts the maximum amount available to sell even if the loans are in arrears, but of course those arrears cannot be sold. I withdrew money asap even the sale request had not finished the request. The sell button itself is fine I managed to do that part without any issue once I had determined how much and what product I wanted to withdraw from. I've recorded everything in pdf's so I can check back later. I knew it would turn off relend - it was already off anyway as I was drawing down in the Invest side. What I was expecting is that it would actually only allow one action at once but things seem to have moved on and has allowed me to withdraw selected funds from 2 products in Invest at once. It does not seem to have affected the ISA side too so that's a bonus as well. I've also got 2 emails telling me that its started to look into my sales so we'll see what happens in the next week or two I guess. As I also have a classic I'm guessing that the holding account will receive funds too.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 8:14:51 GMT
I've not sold two products within invest or ISA, but have sold some ISA and some invest at the same time and it worked fine.
Keep an eye on your holding account as, after 2-3 days, there may be a good chunk of your sale in there; there was for me each time.
If you request an ISA transfer out from Zopa, and if there are sufficient funds in your holding account, the money is taken from there with nothing else affected. I can see your logic in doing it manually as everything is more visible. When transferring into the RS ISA, once they receive the money, it takes around 5 days to clear and then it becomes available for lending at 4pm, so you'll reduce the cash drag doing it manually too.
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aju
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Post by aju on Apr 11, 2019 11:29:53 GMT
I've not sold two products within invest or ISA, but have sold some ISA and some invest at the same time and it worked fine. Keep an eye on your holding account as, after 2-3 days, there may be a good chunk of your sale in there; there was for me each time. If you request an ISA transfer out from Zopa, and if there are sufficient funds in your holding account, the money is taken from there with nothing else affected. I can see your logic in doing it manually as everything is more visible. When transferring into the RS ISA, once they receive the money, it takes around 5 days to clear and then it becomes available for lending at 4pm, so you'll reduce the cash drag doing it manually too. Thx @inv11, I was holding off from mixing the invest and ISA sales option, too many variables to track and as an ex developer I was very wary of keeping control. I am watching Zopa holding at the moment anyway as both our Invest sides have been in drawdown mode since start of the year. Zopa withdrawal sometimes can be in our accounts in the same day and sometimes at the weekend it can take 5 days. If I withdraw just after midnight then it will be in my Santander between 11pm and midnight - its posted as the next day and in Mrs Aju's LLoyds account one has to wait until nearer 00:30-01:00. Zopa's sweep from repayments to holding is very temperamental though and very often is late depending on the other processes at the time I guess. Manually transferring in the money into RS, as soon as it arrives from Zopa into our feeder bank accounts, is very fast almost instant some days never more than a 2-3 hours though, even on the weekends. I guess it uses faster payments for incoming. Zopa lending uses FP for money coming in but not for withdrawing money - they keep promising it but it never seems to happen. They will need to sort that out by the time they are a bank though.
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trium
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Post by trium on Apr 11, 2019 19:56:15 GMT
"Zopa has certain rules when moving ISA's too in that if its not all sold it could be moved from ISA to non ISA.(I can;t now find that last bit so perhaps they have changed their selling functions."I think that only applies to the current year where it is necessary under HMRC rules to transfer in entirety. Past years can be transferred piecemeal. Since we have only just started 2019/2020, none of your ISAs are current year. Edit - sorry it won't let me paste the quote inside the box!
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Apr 12, 2019 7:36:20 GMT
I think it applies to all isa investments. Say you transferred £100k from an s&s isa to a Zopa ISA a few years back. You now wish to transfer your Zopa ISA to RS. Zopa sell your “sellable” loans and transfer the funds to RS. The “unsellable” loans are transferred into a non isa Zopa account.
In this case, if 10% of the loans were in difficulty you lose the tax free benefits on £10k.
Are you saying that Zopa retains the £10k of unsellable loans in your Zopa ISA? If so, presumably they would transfer the funds as and when loans could be sold, but I don’t think that’s how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 9:12:16 GMT
I thought that if you asked to transfer the whole ISA, they would transfer any unsaleable loans to an investment account. If you ask for a fixed amount that can be realised, any remaining loans are retained in the ISA.
If it were me, I would sell loans and then ask to transfer whatever was is my holding account.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 12, 2019 9:28:19 GMT
... In this case, if 10% of the loans were in difficulty you lose the tax free benefits on £10k. ... But get tax relief on any losses when crystallised, which you wouldn't have got if they defaulted while in the ISA. Swings and roundabouts.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 10:05:02 GMT
... In this case, if 10% of the loans were in difficulty you lose the tax free benefits on £10k. ... But get tax relief on any losses when crystallised, which you wouldn't have got if they defaulted while in the ISA. Swings and roundabouts. Isn't the tax relief in the form of a capital loss, so is only any use if you make realised capital gains over the tax-free limit elsewhere (which is unlikely for most)?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 12, 2019 10:59:47 GMT
But get tax relief on any losses when crystallised, which you wouldn't have got if they defaulted while in the ISA. Swings and roundabouts. Isn't the tax relief in the form of a capital loss, so is only any use if you make realised capital gains over the tax-free limit elsewhere (which is unlikely for most)? No it's against income tax for P2P losses, first against losses on the same platform and then against losses on any other P2P platform, has been the case since about 2016? Links to the HMRC guidance are given somewhere but I don't have them to hand. Edit: To clarify for Zopa I declare Interest - Losses + Recoveries. And many other platforms are the same, but some are not true P2P and some do have elements of Capital Gains and Losses involved. So check with platforms and the HMRC guidance. This is my personal opinion do not use as financial advice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 12:58:02 GMT
Isn't the tax relief in the form of a capital loss, so is only any use if you make realised capital gains over the tax-free limit elsewhere (which is unlikely for most)? No it's against income tax for P2P losses, first against losses on the same platform and then against losses on any other P2P platform, has been the case since about 2016? Links to the HMRC guidance are given somewhere but I don't have them to hand. Edit: To clarify for Zopa I declare Interest - Losses + Recoveries. And many other platforms are the same, but some are not true P2P and some do have elements of Capital Gains and Losses involved. So check with platforms and the HMRC guidance. This is my personal opinion do not use as financial advice. Thanks.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Apr 12, 2019 14:14:20 GMT
But get tax relief on any losses when crystallised, which you wouldn't have got if they defaulted while in the ISA. Swings and roundabouts. Isn't the tax relief in the form of a capital loss, so is only any use if you make realised capital gains over the tax-free limit elsewhere (which is unlikely for most)? Yes, but that's a one off. You lose interest on £10K compounding at say 6% tax free in RS for life, because you can't sell the loans and transfer the proceeds - not all of "unsellable" loans are defaults.
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