JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on May 30, 2019 16:46:33 GMT
Further, it was obvious that remain parties got far more votes than leave in the EU elections. This matters and ultimately makes it impossible for the new Prime Minister to engineer a no deal Brexit. This reminded me of this rather splendid piece in the Mail (yes Guardian readers I do know what you think about it).
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 30, 2019 21:08:19 GMT
Heard C Lucas on radio there is little or no chance of an agreement with Lib Dems and the Greens and Change UK if there is a GE.
That will nicely split the remain/ second ref support and The Nigel and Brexit party will be a single focus for those wishing the first referendum result be honoured. Very interesting times.
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sqh
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Post by sqh on May 30, 2019 21:14:34 GMT
That's better! To recap. The new Tory leader will have no popular mandate. Further, it was obvious that remain parties got far more votes than leave in the EU elections. This matters and ultimately makes it impossible for the new Prime Minister to engineer a no deal Brexit. Impossible ! How about a new Prime Minister introducing an EU membership tax. Areas that voted to remain (London & Scotland) would be more heavily taxed than those that voted leave. Then we can have a 2nd Referendum. Of course, those in London & Scotland will vote to leave, and everyone is happy.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 31, 2019 7:24:26 GMT
Further, it was obvious that remain parties got far more votes than leave in the EU elections. This matters and ultimately makes it impossible for the new Prime Minister to engineer a no deal Brexit. This reminded me of this rather splendid piece in the Mail (yes Guardian readers I do know what you think about it).
A Richard Littlejohn opinion piece...? If ever I find myself agreeing on something with him, I'll know I'm dead wrong. He's already hounded at least one person to their death through his column's loathsome kneejerk bigotry. And the only response the Mail could come up with? "Well, the suicide note didn't say it was the press"www.pressgazette.co.uk/daily-mail-responds-criticism-lucy-meadows-coverage-saying-suicide-note-did-not-mention-press/...and seven years later, they still publish his loathsome droolings.
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Post by captainconfident on May 31, 2019 10:04:56 GMT
That Littlejohn article really has the whiff of hysteria about it, as it tries with six metaphors and several false comparisons to prove that black was white. If he actually believed anything he wrote, he would be arguing for a new referendum to prove it.
"Maybe we can have a General Election, then Brexit can get lost in the flood of drivel about austerity or climate change, or the NHS, or something." Can't dodge the voters forever, mate. He knows that the ship has sunk.
What is missing from this whole picture? Eventually the new Tory PM and the ERGers like JRM will need to face a vote, whether in a GE or a referendum. The middle course "May Deal" is out of the picture. They will advocate a no deal Brexit. So where is the campaigning for that? Where is anyone standing up and trying to explain how that could work well for the country? Sell me the new Independent Britain! Make me believe that it will make me feel prouder/richer/independenter/ more handsome!
Frankly, bickering and betrayal and 'traitor' talk is all I hear from Farage, Littlejohn and supporters. It's not going to win over any new voters. It's all very well 'believing' that a WTO Brexit would be good for Britain, but sooner or later you have to persuade a majority of the public.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 31, 2019 10:21:26 GMT
"our latest polling for The Times has the Liberal Democrats in first place on 24%, marginally ahead of the second-placed Brexit Party on 22% (whose ranking at any other time would have been a story in itself). Meanwhile the Conservatives and Labour are in joint third on 19%" YouGov poll article here
Referendum? Bring it on (though Leave will probably lose to Remain) - that'll be the end of the Tories and (hopefully) Labour, leaving the Blands (sorry, LibDems) and Brexit party. This is going to be fun to watch
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 31, 2019 10:44:12 GMT
I really don't know why this country is so scared of the concept of coalition government. It worked well from 2010 to 2015 - and was exactly what was needed at the time.
Actually, I do know. It's because so many cannot get their head away from voting blithely and blindly for a binary colour choice of a ribbon - and their choice is based as much on their parents and grandparents choice (especially if they choose red) as anything else. And because people still don't actually understand what their vote is doing - simply picking which named individual on that ballot paper is the best to represent their area. No more, no less.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 31, 2019 12:48:34 GMT
I really don't know why this country is so scared of the concept of coalition government. Perhaps you could explain the benefits of coalition government to Ed Davey.
"The former Cabinet minister in the Tory-Lib Dem administration said there was “no way” he would guide his party into a similar pact if their MPs were in the position to be kingmakers following a snap general election" article here
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 31, 2019 13:28:34 GMT
They aren't incompatible.
Any 2019 general election will not be the same situation as the 2010 election was. Different leaders of the two main parties, different landscape, inevitably different arithmetic.
The unfortunate but inevitable corollary of the 2010-2015 coalition was that the junior partner (outnumbered 5:1) were never going to get absolutely everything, and were inevitably the whipping-boy afterwards for that - when the reality is that 2015-on has proven how much they punched above their weight in steering the senior partner away from their more extreme internal tendencies.
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Post by captainconfident on May 31, 2019 16:22:37 GMT
I agree with the above and thanks cb for the link. I think the LDs will blow their chances if they choose Jo Swinson. Nice as she is, she is ineffectual and drowned out in all the TV debates she takes part in, Newsnight etc. The big shame for them is that Layla Moran has ruled herself out. She's PM material.
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cb25
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Post by cb25 on May 31, 2019 16:34:51 GMT
I agree with the above and thanks cb for the link. I think the LDs will blow their chances if they choose Jo Swinson. Nice as she is, she is ineffectual and drowned out in all the TV debates she takes part in, Newsnight etc. The big shame for them is that Layla Moran has ruled herself out. She's PM material. Jo Swinson is another one against coalition with Labour/Tories, Guardian article here, "Swinson said she was passionate about working with other groups and alliances to stop the UK leaving the EU through a second referendum... However, she said she could not contemplate teaming up with either Corbyn’s Labour or a Brexit-led Tory party in a coalition after an autumn general election"
re "Nice as she is" - seems to me that leaders, especially PMs, need to have a bit of a nasty side to them in order to cope with the problems/arguments that come their way.
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Post by captainconfident on May 31, 2019 17:40:47 GMT
Peterborough by-election will be an interesting test of the first past the post system. It's a Labour seat with Tories as runners up. You'd expect a Brexit Party win as there were 61% leave voters in 2016. And the Greens are standing to knacker the LD's chances. But the Brexit and Conservatives will also split their potential vote.
So this is impossible to predict, and Labour might retain this seat as nobody is competing with their "I'm in a muddle" position. What's also likely with wonderful FPTP is that the winning party gets less than 25% of the people who bother to vote. Crazy.
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starfished
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Post by starfished on May 31, 2019 23:05:32 GMT
Jo Swinson is another one against coalition with Labour/Tories, Guardian article here, "Swinson said she was passionate about working with other groups and alliances to stop the UK leaving the EU through a second referendum... However, she said she could not contemplate teaming up with either Corbyn’s Labour or a Brexit-led Tory party in a coalition after an autumn general election"
re "Nice as she is" - seems to me that leaders, especially PMs, need to have a bit of a nasty side to them in order to cope with the problems/arguments that come their way.
Given she launched her campaign at something related to Tony Blair I assume she is anti-Corbyn rather than anti-Labour, i.e. a negotiation option might be she'd agree to a coalition if Labour agreed to a change of leader and JC did not stand. To be honest, I sometimes think he wants out but a weird sense of duty keeps him there...
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 1, 2019 7:09:35 GMT
Jo Swinson is another one against coalition with Labour/Tories, Guardian article here, "Swinson said she was passionate about working with other groups and alliances to stop the UK leaving the EU through a second referendum... However, she said she could not contemplate teaming up with either Corbyn’s Labour or a Brexit-led Tory party in a coalition after an autumn general election" Indeed. Against a coalition in the current circumstances, with the current players. Not against the concept of a coalition.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 3, 2019 22:53:12 GMT
Just laughing at the Daily Mirror subheadline about the Trump visit : "Guests quaff pricey wine". Not that he isn't the worst thing the Americans have launched on us since 'Cheez Straws'.
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