Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 20, 2019 11:42:42 GMT
Simple question for those that invest in the financial markets and P2P as of this month from up to 2 years ago have your returns as ROI been greater in the markets or P2P ?
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macq
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Post by macq on May 20, 2019 12:04:36 GMT
why only 2 years? but for what its worth IT's like Monks & Scot Mortgage up about 35% Impax 30% among a few but even the humble F&C is over 20%.And would think even the trackers in my Pensions like L&G global 100 are beating my P2P returns plus things like TRIG & Sequoia are yielding about 6% plus a bit of growth
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on May 20, 2019 20:52:29 GMT
I'm outta here, the naivety is too painful to watch.
If you think that's painful try reading the FS boards and his constant promotion of his apparently foolproof scheme of buying up the whole secondary market and proceeding to sell it all at a profit. All done safety within the FS sales cut off timescales. What could possibly go wrong.
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sqh
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Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on May 21, 2019 0:15:19 GMT
My S&S inc. Funds (excluding Pension funds) returns in 40 years are less than my P2P returns in 5 years.
I once put my £6,000 annual PEP allowance in a FTSE 100 company (Energis) that promptly went bust. I bought a smaller companies Asian fund a few days before the 1997-8 Asian crisis. I even sold one share, Easynet (at a small profit) in 1997 before it rocketed 5000% in the following 18 months.
EDIT: I am including accrued interest on P2P, but I am allowing for some losses.
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 21, 2019 8:44:05 GMT
My S&S inc. Funds (excluding Pension funds) returns in 40 years are less than my P2P returns in 5 years. I once put my £6,000 annual PEP allowance in a FTSE 100 company (Energis) that promptly went bust. I bought a smaller companies Asian fund a few days before the 1997-8 Asian crisis. I even sold one share, Easynet (at a small profit) in 1997 before it rocketed 5000% in the following 18 months. EDIT: I am including accrued interest on P2P, but I am allowing for some losses. I have made good returns in stock market investments about 25-30% in last 4 years but it takes a lot of work. I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. Again it takes considerable work. For both you can’t just buy and forget.. Property gets about 18-20%. ( a quirk of Scottish market low cost high returns)
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Post by Ace on May 21, 2019 9:19:32 GMT
My S&S inc. Funds (excluding Pension funds) returns in 40 years are less than my P2P returns in 5 years. I once put my £6,000 annual PEP allowance in a FTSE 100 company (Energis) that promptly went bust. I bought a smaller companies Asian fund a few days before the 1997-8 Asian crisis. I even sold one share, Easynet (at a small profit) in 1997 before it rocketed 5000% in the following 18 months. EDIT: I am including accrued interest on P2P, but I am allowing for some losses. I have made good returns in stock market investments about 25-30% in last 4 years but it takes a lot of work. I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. Again it takes considerable work. For both you can’t just buy and forget.. Property gets about 18-20%. ( a quirk of Scottish market low cost high returns) My Vanguard Life Strategy 100% Equities fund rose 43% in the last 4 years. It's ISA wrapped and took absolutely zero effort. My p2p investments are currently returning a combined XIRR of about 8% - mostly ISA wrapped. I expect this to rise over time as quite a few investments don't pay gains until maturity, and I don't account for accrued gains until they're paid. My p2p investments take a great deal of effort; more than I could manage if I was still working. I only do it because I really enjoy it, and it's profitable. I think that whether S&S or p2p return higher gains in a year will vary considerably over time. For me, there's plenty of room for both.
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on May 21, 2019 11:19:53 GMT
My S&S inc. Funds (excluding Pension funds) returns in 40 years are less than my P2P returns in 5 years. I once put my £6,000 annual PEP allowance in a FTSE 100 company (Energis) that promptly went bust. I bought a smaller companies Asian fund a few days before the 1997-8 Asian crisis. I even sold one share, Easynet (at a small profit) in 1997 before it rocketed 5000% in the following 18 months. EDIT: I am including accrued interest on P2P, but I am allowing for some losses. I have made good returns in stock market investments about 25-30% in last 4 years but it takes a lot of work. I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. Again it takes considerable work. For both you can’t just buy and forget.. Property gets about 18-20%. ( a quirk of Scottish market low cost high returns) Be careful of UK Property Funds. This is the one that floored me. It was very highly ranked in 2006, but was worthless 2 years later. www.pr.com/press-release/41086www.allsop.co.uk/media/allsop-instructed-to-dispose-of-skylight-capital-build-up-fund-plc-portfolio/EDIT: The reason the fund became worthless was that for every £1000 investment, the fund could borrow an extra £500 from a bank to buy more property. The bank they used was Allied Irish Banks and they called in every penny they could get in 2008.
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on May 21, 2019 11:37:13 GMT
I have made good returns in stock market investments about 25-30% in last 4 years but it takes a lot of work. I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. Again it takes considerable work. For both you can’t just buy and forget.. Property gets about 18-20%. ( a quirk of Scottish market low cost high returns) My Vanguard Life Strategy 100% Equities fund rose 43% in the last 4 years. It's ISA wrapped and took absolutely zero effort. My p2p investments are currently returning a combined XIRR of about 8% - mostly ISA wrapped. I expect this to rise over time as quite a few investments don't pay gains until maturity, and I don't account for accrued gains until they're paid. My p2p investments take a great deal of effort; more than I could manage if I was still working. I only do it because I really enjoy it, and it's profitable. I think that whether S&S or p2p return higher gains in a year will vary considerably over time. For me, there's plenty of room for both. I agree there should be investments made over many profit vectors and if the outcome is positive then that is a win, I count only profits actually paid out and losses on completd investments not "potential" to lose.
I was mentioning individual shares and of course you wisely choose managed funds to reduce the need of self managment and risk of overall loss.
Like you I only do it because I really enjoy it, and it's profitable. If you require a stable income then leave it to the fund managers and get steady lower returns than can be achieved with sufficient capital to drawdown during the lean years . ie. the 5 year stress test,
As you are aware P2P requires vigilance and effort as it is a complex high risk investment and should only ever have part in a portfolio of many investments.
Most of all you need a calm and relaxed attitude and disposable funds to enjoy and profit from P2P. It is not in any way shape or form for the innocent Mr. and Mrs Angry that expect everythng in the world to be fair. It is a big bad place with a special corner for financial investments like P2P 
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Godanubis
Member of DD Central
Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
Posts: 2,011
Likes: 1,013
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Post by Godanubis on May 21, 2019 11:53:59 GMT
I have made good returns in stock market investments about 25-30% in last 4 years but it takes a lot of work. I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. Again it takes considerable work. For both you can’t just buy and forget.. Property gets about 18-20%. ( a quirk of Scottish market low cost high returns) Be careful of UK Property Funds. This is the one that floored me. It was very highly ranked in 2006, but was worthless 2 years later. www.pr.com/press-release/41086www.allsop.co.uk/media/allsop-instructed-to-dispose-of-skylight-capital-build-up-fund-plc-portfolio/EDIT: The reason the fund became worthless was that for every £1000 investment, the fund could borrow an extra £500 from a bank to buy more property. The bank they used was Allied Irish Banks and they called in every penny they could get in 2008. A cautionarry tale for all, I think 2008 had lots of people that were sittingy cozy get a rude awakening, Fortunately most things have settled back to the now usual Brexit stressed state.
Bottom line all investments are a minefield, Just make sure you have a few mine detecting rats on your side link
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gibmike
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What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
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Post by gibmike on May 24, 2019 23:15:29 GMT
I am lucky enough to have a personal investment manager who gives me a heads up on the prevailing winds.
One thing I have learned (and I am not an expert) is that panic buying/selling is always going to leave you worse off. I trade about 2-3 times a year and that is to remove over exposed stocks (recently was advised to sell F&C due to brexit impact) and pick up others which are pretty much brexit free. Check out this recommendation:
Comparing S&S to P2P is chalk and cheese. Over the long term I expect S&S to outperform anything even if there is a crash. P2P is only 14% of my portfolio but the return is aimed at 12% to take into account defaults/failed loans etc. I like P2P and will like the blockchain based P2P when it comes online. This should increase diversity and also reduce costs.
My strategy (FWIW) is to live off P2P income for a few years until my S&S hit my target then I will disappear into the sunset.
Mike
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aju
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Post by aju on May 25, 2019 13:40:26 GMT
In the last 2 years we have made approx 7.5% on our S&S based on their current div/value and approx 5% on our P2P lending. Now we are in RS as well as Zopa I expect that to improve slightly in P2P but not that much at todays rates though. Our return is slightly diminished on the P2P as I pay tax but now we have restructured into ISA's and excess in invest is now below £1000 then this will be better if the rates don;t keep tumbling or default in Zopa side don't cause an issue.
The S&S returns are just on dividends I might add, haven't bought or sold any shares in a very long time. Our main shares (ex company ones so well discounted) are slightly down over the last year on what we paid for them so selling them is not an option at the moment anyway.
What I would say is that we have had most of our shares for over 10 years, the Divi's have been very useful to prop up our pensions too. If we had reinvested then I guess it might have been even higher with compounding effects added in but then again our purpose of the shares was dividend income.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 7:59:08 GMT
Poor question. At best, in P2P you might get two lucky years of double digit growth. Let's say a risky 20% gain. In shares the return is almost limitless. You can make a loss but a single share might double in two years. You are not measuring like with like. Shares and P2P are two different instruments with different risk/reward profiles.
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Godanubis
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Anubis is known as the god of death and is the oldest and most popular of ancient Egyptian deities.
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Post by Godanubis on Sept 15, 2019 8:15:29 GMT
Poor question. At best, in P2P you might get two lucky years of double digit growth. Let's say a risky 20% gain. In shares the return is almost limitless. You can make a loss but a single share might double in two years. You are not measuring like with like. Shares and P2P are two different instruments with different risk/reward profiles. The losses in S&S can be total P2P asset.based P2P working well is better proposition. Over last 4-5 years my P2P has consistently daily produced a profit. I can’t sa the same for S&S. A single tweet or BOE comment can wipe large % off a portfolio for several months. For smaller investors dealing costs prohibited large diversified portfolios that can weather poor market conditions. The basic risk is the same when property is involved. Will the borrower make your investments work. Shareholders and lenders are effectively the same you give someone your dosh and hope the use it wisely.
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macq
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Post by macq on Sept 15, 2019 13:42:18 GMT
Poor question. At best, in P2P you might get two lucky years of double digit growth. Let's say a risky 20% gain. In shares the return is almost limitless. You can make a loss but a single share might double in two years. You are not measuring like with like. Shares and P2P are two different instruments with different risk/reward profiles. The losses in S&S can be total P2P asset.based P2P working well is better proposition. Over last 4-5 years my P2P has consistently daily produced a profit. I can’t sa the same for S&S. A single tweet or BOE comment can wipe large % off a portfolio for several months. For smaller investors dealing costs prohibited large diversified portfolios that can weather poor market conditions. The basic risk is the same when property is involved. Will the borrower make your investments work. Shareholders and lenders are effectively the same you give someone your dosh and hope the use it wisely. Not going down the which is better debate again but would disagree that dealing cost prohibit diversified portfolios.There are now many cheap multi asset funds from L&G,Blackrock,Hsbc & VLS etc as well as many older but dearer OEIC.Or even IT's like CGT or PNL (and even a new One JARA from JPM) etc
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mason
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Post by mason on Sept 15, 2019 17:38:18 GMT
I am at about 15% PA with P2P so ahead. I'm curious to understand how you have achieved net returns of that level from P2P. Presumably you have experienced some bad debt, so either the average interest rate paid to you was quite a bit higher than 15% or you've found somewhere you can invest at 15% that has been free of bad debt. How is such a thing possible?
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