bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Jun 26, 2019 17:28:26 GMT
Someone has a lot of confidence in FS and the 2 petrol station loans. A nice big chunk has been invested in both loans. £185k in total from the same lender.
I'm always very VERY suspicious when that happens. Who knows Who? Who knows What? Who's connected with/to Who? Who has "information" provided from Who? Who is in bed with Who? Etc. I think you get my drift. I have about as much faith that 185k actually happened as I have in that interim visit to a certain building site in the NW which then jumped up the value. It must be just as easy to enter a number into a database of investors to assist confidence as it is to turn out an update or ten - again to assist confidence.
Or is that just me having lost all faith in a platform - hmmmm.........
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 26, 2019 18:55:20 GMT
I'm always very VERY suspicious when that happens. Who knows Who? Who knows What? Who's connected with/to Who? Who has "information" provided from Who? Who is in bed with Who? Etc. I think you get my drift. I have about as much faith that 185k actually happened as I have in that interim visit to a certain building site in the NW which then jumped up the value. It must be just as easy to enter a number into a database of investors to assist confidence as it is to turn out an update or ten - again to assist confidence.
Or is that just me having lost all faith in a platform - hmmmm.........
Oh bugs4me, I'm attracted to an intelligent man. I like you! 
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sarahcount
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Post by sarahcount on Jun 26, 2019 19:30:54 GMT
I have about as much faith that 185k actually happened as I have in that interim visit to a certain building site in the NW which then jumped up the value. It must be just as easy to enter a number into a database of investors to assist confidence as it is to turn out an update or ten - again to assist confidence.
Or is that just me having lost all faith in a platform - hmmmm.........
Oh bugs4me , I'm attracted to an intelligent man. I like you! Loans slow to fill = predictions of impending collapse. Big hitting investor reportedly piles in = accusations of skulduggery and corruption. While FS certainly have their faults these sort of scurrilous and groundless statements really don't help any of us.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Jun 26, 2019 19:46:00 GMT
I'm always very VERY suspicious when that happens. Who knows Who? Who knows What? Who's connected with/to Who? Who has "information" provided from Who? Who is in bed with Who? Etc. I think you get my drift. I have about as much faith that 185k actually happened as I have in that interim visit to a certain building site in the NW which then jumped up the value. It must be just as easy to enter a number into a database of investors to assist confidence as it is to turn out an update or ten - again to assist confidence.
Or is that just me having lost all faith in a platform - hmmmm.........
The loan with £85k is now listed in the 'awaiting activation' area. If they wanted to pull a fast one, I'd have thought FS could have done a 'fully underwritten' job on this as per 3271140798 - Notting Hill. ie: it shows as filled but stays in the 'available' section until it fills via 'regular' lenders money. (not that I think 3271140798 wasn't underwritten - I'm just saying there are other ways and means)
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 26, 2019 20:32:27 GMT
Oh bugs4me , I'm attracted to an intelligent man. I like you! Loans slow to fill = predictions of impending collapse. Big hitting investor reportedly piles in = accusations of skulduggery and corruption. While FS certainly have their faults these sort of scurrilous and groundless statements really don't help any of us.Maybe, maybe not, but they certainly educate.  And the underlined bit is the understatement of the millennium!
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petrichory
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Post by petrichory on Jun 27, 2019 16:48:47 GMT
Someone has a lot of confidence in FS and the 2 petrol station loans. A nice big chunk has been invested in both loans. £185k in total from the same lender.
I'm always very VERY suspicious when that happens. Who knows Who? Who knows What? Who's connected with/to Who? Who has "information" provided from Who? Who is in bed with Who? Etc. I think you get my drift. Probably the same people who were given a heads-up and priority exit from the LSA loans on the SM before their collapse. Attachments:
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arby
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Post by arby on Jun 27, 2019 18:39:57 GMT
I'm always very VERY suspicious when that happens. Who knows Who? Who knows What? Who's connected with/to Who? Who has "information" provided from Who? Who is in bed with Who? Etc. I think you get my drift. Probably the same people who were given a heads-up and priority exit from the LSA loans on the SM before their collapse. Is your attachment signifying that a large investor was given priority in selling a £25 stake?
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petrichory
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Post by petrichory on Jun 27, 2019 20:18:47 GMT
Is your attachment signifying that a large investor was given priority in selling a £25 stake? Auto-selling small loan parts and replacing the £25 whenever one is sold. I thought it was weird and recorded it, long before these loans went t*ts up. I would have brushed it off as an anomaly if it wasn't for the fact that, when purchasing this loan part, it would suddenly drop to 50th from the top when re-listed. Clearly, the person selling it had SM priority listing privileges on their account that are not transferable with the loan part. It is a working theory, you are welcome to run the numbers and prove me wrong.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 27, 2019 20:31:53 GMT
Is your attachment signifying that a large investor was given priority in selling a £25 stake? Auto-selling small loan parts and replacing the £25 whenever one is sold. I thought it was weird and recorded it, long before these loans went t*ts up. I would have brushed it off as an anomaly if it wasn't for the fact that, when purchasing this loan part, it would suddenly drop to 50th from the top when re-listed. Clearly, the person selling it had SM priority listing privileges on their account that are not transferable with the loan part. It is a working theory, you are welcome to run the numbers and prove me wrong. Are you sure it's not because they invested when the loan first launched whereas the other sellers invested later in the funding period? For example see the days spread on this one 2147790488.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 27, 2019 20:34:12 GMT
Auto-selling small loan parts and replacing the £25 whenever one is sold. I thought it was weird and recorded it, long before these loans went t*ts up. I would have brushed it off as an anomaly if it wasn't for the fact that, when purchasing this loan part, it would suddenly drop to 50th from the top when re-listed. Clearly, the person selling it had SM priority listing privileges on their account that are not transferable with the loan part. It is a working theory, you are welcome to run the numbers and prove me wrong. There are no listing privileges on the FS SM. What you are seeing is if person A invested the day before person B and they both list at a 1% discount, the effective rate for person A will be slightly higher and so appear higher in the 1% queue.
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thedog
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Post by thedog on Jun 27, 2019 20:52:39 GMT
Auto-selling small loan parts and replacing the £25 whenever one is sold. I thought it was weird and recorded it, long before these loans went t*ts up. I would have brushed it off as an anomaly if it wasn't for the fact that, when purchasing this loan part, it would suddenly drop to 50th from the top when re-listed. Clearly, the person selling it had SM priority listing privileges on their account that are not transferable with the loan part. It is a working theory, you are welcome to run the numbers and prove me wrong. There are no listing privileges on the FS SM. What you are seeing is if person A invested the day before person B and they both list at a 1% discount, the effective rate for person A will be slightly higher and so appear higher in the 1% queue. I've spent lots (far, far too much....) time running the maths on this subject and it's usually younger loans which have a higher yield to maturity (so A should have a lower ytm) - which is why the screenshot posted does look odd to me.
An FS SM sale is the interest earning principle plus the accrued (which earns no interest, no compounding). So the principal earns say 12%, the accrued zero and the YTM is effectively the weighted average of the 2 (I know that's not how the formula works but think of it that way for now to see the age to ytm relationship). So the greater the accrued (which has YTM 0%) the lower the average YTM. Greater accrued means older loan, so older loans lower YTM.
It's NOT a hard and fast rule because of rounding to nearest 1p but the screenshot posted does look very odd to me. Just to prove how sad I am I'm now going to try to replicate the maths....
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petrichory
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Post by petrichory on Jun 27, 2019 20:53:17 GMT
Are you sure it's not because they invested when the loan first launched whereas the other sellers invested later in the funding period? For example see the days spread on this one 2147790488. That is not how the effective rate percentage is calculated. The effective rate percentage relates to the profit that you could make by purchasing the loan part at a discount (assuming the loan is redeemed after exactly 180 days) in relation to the interest the loan part has already generated. If you are the first person to "invest" - a generous term for FS - then your loan part will accrue more interest compared to the last person to invest. On the SM, the buyer has to pay for that interest so the lower the accumulated interest in relation to the discount, the cheaper it is for the buyer. Therefore the last person to invest in a loan will (or should) always have their loan part at the very top of the effective rate table, assuming the discount rate is the same. You will sometimes see parts that are 2-3 days apart but a spread of 12 days is mathematically impossible and cannot be explained by size/rounding.
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thedog
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Post by thedog on Jun 27, 2019 21:14:38 GMT
Are you sure it's not because they invested when the loan first launched whereas the other sellers invested later in the funding period? For example see the days spread on this one 2147790488. That is not how the effective rate percentage is calculated. The effective rate percentage relates to the profit that you could make by purchasing the loan part at a discount (assuming the loan is redeemed after exactly 180 days) in relation to the interest the loan part has already generated. If you are the first person to "invest" - a generous term for FS - then your loan part will accrue more interest compared to the last person to invest. On the SM, the buyer has to pay for that interest so the lower the accumulated interest in relation to the discount, the cheaper it is for the buyer. Therefore the last person to invest in a loan will (or should) always have their loan part at the very top of the effective rate table, assuming the discount rate is the same. You will sometimes see parts that are 2-3 days apart but a spread of 12 days is mathematically impossible and cannot be explained by size/rounding. What he said.
I'm struggling to post my spreadsheet screen shot because I can do market maths but am internet hopeless. I can replicate the 21.5% for the £25 piece with 122 days accrued but for the £25 piece with 134 days accrued I calulate the Effective Rate (using FS's own formaula quoted on its website) to be 21.41%. So in line with my and Petricory's thoughts.
Having said that, FS are inept so this might well be the cock-up rather than conspiracy school of history, they might just have got the formula wrong......
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 27, 2019 21:21:08 GMT
What he said.
I'm struggling to post my spreadsheet screen shot because I can do market maths but am internet hopeless. I can replicate the 21.5% for the £25 piece with 122 days accrued but for the £25 piece with 134 days accrued I calulate the Effective Rate (using FS's own formaula quoted on its website) to be 21.41%. So in line with my and Petricory's thoughts.
Having said that, FS are inept so this might well be the cock-up rather than conspiracy school of history, they might just have got the formula wrong......
If you're sure of your maths, I suggest emailing FS as it may be a small bug you have discovered. As for the reason it has happened, I really can't see large investors bothering to shift £25 at a time for such a tiny advantage. For any significant investments, it would just take far too long and require too much effort. Don't forget, they lose any bonuses when selling on the SM too.
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thedog
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Post by thedog on Jun 27, 2019 21:31:35 GMT
Completely confident in the maths. Will need to copy Petrichory's screenshot as well to show the error. Petrichory is that ok with you - won't copy the coments etc. (I REALLY have got to understand this tagging thing as well.....)
I've tried to help them out on errors before and they're not terribly receptive, maybe it's my over-aggressive manner!
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