|
|
Post by geoffrey on Oct 21, 2014 15:09:25 GMT
Mmmmm!! I don't want "market rate" decisions by RS at 5.95% to be dumped into a pot where I am only allowed to specify 6.0%. That would mean RS could manipulate each morning's bulk orders to the front of an existing queue as and when they please (if they so choose). If RS can put the money in at 5.95% (concealed) I want it to be visible to me; I want the facility to put my money in at 5.94% if I choose to. It seems like it is (as RS is saying) an artefact of the fact that the Your Rate functionality will not allow the offer to match below the rate set, and doesn't have any rounding logic built into it. I don't think there is much room for overt manipulation in this "rounding error". After all, offers made without the Your Rate functionality *do* match a market rate of >=5.95% (if the explanation we have been given is correct). I have never seen auto-lending offers jump ahead of my offer in the queue, so everything points to this being a glitch with Your Rate only that could be easily fixed. If they're not happy with producing a quick fix, then they really should suspend that functionality given what happened last week.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087 
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 21, 2014 15:23:53 GMT
"If they're not happy with producing a quick fix, then they really should suspend that functionality given what happened last week."
I agree. ALL offers were jumping the queue, not just autolending offers. I jumped the queue in 5.9% last Tuesday, using "Your Rate". It has been explained how market rate is produced, and an attempt to justify how "some 5.9% rates are not equal to other 5.9% rates" has been offered, therefore slot in further up the queues. It has not been explained why all offers went in front for nearly a week within the "notional" 5.9%.
This has only happened since the new website was launched. I have never observed such irregularity while watching my little packages progressing towards matching over the last year.
|
|
spiral
Member of DD Central
Posts: 908
Likes: 455
|
Post by spiral on Oct 21, 2014 17:08:40 GMT
"some 5.9% rates are not equal to other 5.9% rates"
"All 5.9% rates are equal, but some 5.9% rates are more equal than others" Eddie George Orwell
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 21, 2014 17:28:15 GMT
 spiral Yes I had thought of that when I posted but it wouldn't have said quite what I wanted to say.... better off as a subsequent quip! 
|
|
|
|
Post by elljay on Oct 21, 2014 18:19:10 GMT
Should the 5.9% I've highlighted in red should read 5. 8%? elljay, It's correct, 5.9%. The lender return presumes reinvestment, see www.ratesetter.com/lend/faq " Our displayed rates of return assume that a Lender is reinvesting their repayments in the same market, at the same rate. If your calculated rate of return is less, this may be that you have not reinvested your repayments, or have reinvested them at a lower rate than the original rate you agreed. " Ah ok. I'll shut up now. 
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 1,484
|
Post by pikestaff on Oct 21, 2014 22:00:01 GMT
elljay, It's correct, 5.9%. The lender return presumes reinvestment, see www.ratesetter.com/lend/faq " Our displayed rates of return assume that a Lender is reinvesting their repayments in the same market, at the same rate. If your calculated rate of return is less, this may be that you have not reinvested your repayments, or have reinvested them at a lower rate than the original rate you agreed. " Ah ok. I'll shut up now. Well, you shouldn't shut up. Westonkev's first figure (5.75%) corresponds to a lender rate of (1+5.75%/12)^12-1 = 5.90% and his second figure (5.84%) corresponds to a lender rate of (1+5.84%/12)^12-1 = 6.00%. I have seen nothing yet to persuade me that lender rates (including MR) are in anything other than whole tenths. It would be both extremely worrying, and a matter for the regulator, if this were not true. The explanations so far have been completely spurious, IMO.
|
|
spiral
Member of DD Central
Posts: 908
Likes: 455
|
Post by spiral on Oct 22, 2014 8:27:21 GMT
I have seen nothing yet to persuade me that lender rates (including MR) are in anything other than whole tenths. It would be both extremely worrying, and a matter for the regulator, if this were not true. The explanations so far have been completely spurious, IMO. I totally agree, I thought RS were better than this but it appears we are being fed bull****. I don't have a problem with mistakes being made, but it's how they are dealt with that matters. Unfortunately in WK we have had someone on the inside at our level. I suspect that whatever is going on/went on, he is not at liberty to divulge. Did anyone receive the email that was mentioned a couple of days ago? I didn't so assume they only informed those that queried directly. 
|
|
|
|
Post by davee39 on Oct 22, 2014 9:18:29 GMT
This is extraordinary regarding the anger shown regarding a queue glitch AND the RS response.
Clearly the system broke last Wednesday, but sorted itself when the 5.9 offer was exhausted.
Equally RS have no understanding of what happened, and quoted bizarre BS in the absence of an explanation (A standard reaction from a confused IT person).
Some of this anger seems rather synthetic, its a bit like being in the slowest queue at the post office. Some things just are not worth fretting about while much of what goes on in the world these days is distinctly under fretted. Now everyone, deep breaths, count to 10 and return to complaining on the FC thread.
In an alternative universe there may be a psychology student writing a PHD on whether purple websites make people angry.
|
|
pikestaff
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,136
Likes: 1,484
|
Post by pikestaff on Oct 22, 2014 10:56:12 GMT
This is extraordinary regarding the anger shown regarding a queue glitch AND the RS response. Clearly the system broke last Wednesday, but sorted itself when the 5.9 offer was exhausted. Equally RS have no understanding of what happened, and quoted bizarre BS in the absence of an explanation (A standard reaction from a confused IT person). Some of this anger seems rather synthetic, its a bit like being in the slowest queue at the post office. Some things just are not worth fretting about while much of what goes on in the world these days is distinctly under fretted. Now everyone, deep breaths, count to 10 and return to complaining on the FC thread. In an alternative universe there may be a psychology student writing a PHD on whether purple websites make people angry. The voice of reason as always. As for purple websites.... !
|
|
wapping35
Member of DD Central
Posts: 385
Likes: 210
|
Post by wapping35 on Oct 22, 2014 12:15:41 GMT
My worry about this issue is IT glitches that don't get fixed, addressed or at least analysed can hide an underlying problem that may well be more serious next time. Who knows.
At the moment that involves me having to check my lending orders are moving up the queue. Which they have been doing since the Oct 15th glitch.
Anyway I did email directly to RS (since I did receive the email explanation mentioned) on Monday night, so should receive an answer shortly.
|
|
spiral
Member of DD Central
Posts: 908
Likes: 455
|
Post by spiral on Oct 22, 2014 17:24:17 GMT
Equally RS have no understanding of what happened, and quoted bizarre BS in the absence of an explanation (A standard reaction from a confused IT person). Some things just are not worth fretting about Now everyone, deep breaths, count to 10 and return to complaining on the FC thread. 1. So why come up with the 2 decimal place BS then. 2. Correct but if they can't give an honest answer, don't BS, It makes them look amateur. I would prefer an honest response even if that was to say that the issue has now passed and we can't work out what occurred. 3. 7,8,9,10, aahhh.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 22, 2014 17:38:22 GMT
"Correct but if they can't give an honest answer, don't BS, It makes them look amateur. I would prefer an honest response even if that was to say that the issue has now passed and we can't work out what occurred"
Exactly. Most of the bluster (including mine) would not have occurred had RS immediately, when they were informed and while it was happening, checked it then switched it off, and not tried to BS the queueing error as a function of their 2dp methods of setting market rate.
Now everyone has been alerted in case it recurs. We know what to do. Withdraw our order and renew it to jump everybody else until RS deals with it again.
I can't count past five!  )
|
|
|
|
Post by westonkevRS on Oct 22, 2014 17:55:41 GMT
I find it strange that people would think we, I, RateSetter would "bullshit" on a public forum. Basically people think I'm lying. That's fine, people don't know me and the Internet is a tough place. But I wouldn't lend on a platform whose honest, integrity and transparency I didn't trust.
I can categorically state that the answers here have been honest. There has been no "glitch", the system is working as it has done for several years (in this particular respect, the YR functionality and 2bp).
Kevin.
Kevin.
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Oct 22, 2014 18:08:01 GMT
I find it strange that people would think we, I, RateSetter would "bullshit" on a public forum. Basically people think I'm lying. That's fine, people don't know me and the Internet is a tough place. But I wouldn't lend on a platform whose honest, integrity and transparency I didn't trust. I can categorically state that the answers here have been honest. There has been no "glitch", the system is working as it has done for several years (in this particular respect, the YR functionality and 2bp). Kevin. Kevin. I don't believe for a minute that you have been lying. You tell us what the IT guys tell you, that's all you can do and they tell you what they believe to be true (like all that 2dp stuff to determine market rate, I believe all that). I also believe that they don't know what happened. I cannot believe that everybody between Tuesday and Sunday put money in at market rate, so that no-one used "Your Rate 5.9%" which should have placed them behind people in 5.9% who had been waiting since Tuesday. Even people who did use "Your Rate 5.9%" during that period have confirmed that they jumped in front. Fact.
I do believe your guys just don't know what was going on because it had stopped by Monday when they tried to attend to it.
There's little else to be said really. Let's hope it doesn't get stuck again.
Truce now.
|
|
spiral
Member of DD Central
Posts: 908
Likes: 455
|
Post by spiral on Oct 22, 2014 18:31:21 GMT
Westonkev, I too am with OG on this. I have always found you (and therefore RS) to be true, open and honest and sincere. What you have conveyed is what you were told. Its just the majority of us don't believe it.
If it is true, I would like to understand how MR can be and is calculated to 2DP using a worked example because everything we have been told in the past, doesn't lend itself to that scenario.
E.g
£1000 on offer at 5.9%
£50000 on offer at 6.0%
A further £949000 at 6.1% and above.
If the formula discarded £999.99 MR would be 5.9%, if it discards £1000, it would be 6.0%. There is no scenario that gives a figure between 5.9 and 6.0.
|
|
)