cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 5, 2019 10:19:15 GMT
Hello all Like most of you, I'm getting anxious about recovery, how much we would recover and how much fees will be deducted. I've been looking around what are the standard fees for insolvency practitioners: Partner/Director: average £366; range £212-£800 Manager : average £253; range £100-460 Other senior staff: average £182; range £75-445 Assistants/support: average £103; range £25-260 www.gov.uk/government/publications/insolvency-practitioner-fees-a-reviewWhen looking at collateral administrator fees, the rate charged is at least twice or triple the average rate or more. So we're really getting charged in the highest band. So then... The question is... Is it better to have the best insolvency practitioners for recovery, or is it better to have the cheaper one that are good enough for a fire sale? Because if I have to choose between a recovery of 70% and then only get 10% back due to high administrator fees... Or just get some small firm administrators plan for a fire sale and get 50% or less of the original value and get 30% back... I'd definitely choose the later! |
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Post by billy169 on Jun 5, 2019 10:27:27 GMT
I'm expecting a 70% return as an end result... anything less is a stitch up by all !!!
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Post by p2plender on Jun 5, 2019 10:37:32 GMT
Any jobs going there?
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Jun 5, 2019 16:11:33 GMT
... So then... The question is... Is it better to have the best insolvency practitioners for recovery, or is it better to have the cheaper one that are good enough for a fire sale? ... I guess it depends on the asset base (just like in divorces). What seems like a huge fee can be a small percentage of the overall sum, so in the case of Lendy I'd prefer top-class practitioners who get on with the job and have the best chance of squeezing most from borrowers (and owners).
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cwah
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Post by cwah on Jun 5, 2019 21:22:23 GMT
... So then... The question is... Is it better to have the best insolvency practitioners for recovery, or is it better to have the cheaper one that are good enough for a fire sale? ... I guess it depends on the asset base (just like in divorces). What seems like a huge fee can be a small percentage of the overall sum, so in the case of Lendy I'd prefer top-class practitioners who get on with the job and have the best chance of squeezing most from borrowers (and owners). Let's hope it does work out then. I'd actually compare it against Managed funds vs Index funds. The managed funds systematically perform worse than the index funds because of their fees. Even though it only takes a few %, when it's compounded it removes an enormous % (like 10-30%) of investors return. Seeing for Collateral, the administrators fees are about £1 million / year with a simple loan book, I'd say with Lendy it's going to be much more as they're likely to bring more people in to do the job with the bigger loan book.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jun 6, 2019 6:16:38 GMT
I guess it depends on the asset base (just like in divorces). What seems like a huge fee can be a small percentage of the overall sum, so in the case of Lendy I'd prefer top-class practitioners who get on with the job and have the best chance of squeezing most from borrowers (and owners). Let's hope it does work out then. I'd actually compare it against Managed funds vs Index funds. The managed funds systematically perform worse than the index funds because of their fees. Even though it only takes a few %, when it's compounded it removes an enormous % (like 10-30%) of investors return. Seeing for Collateral, the administrators fees are about £1 million / year with a simple loan book, I'd say with Lendy it's going to be much more as they're likely to bring more people in to do the job with the bigger loan book. As has been said before there is little similarity between Col and Lendy. The Col administration fees were heavily front loaded due to picking up the pieces from the wreckage and reconstructing the loan book. Lendy although much bigger should be in much better initial condition for the administrators to just get on and do their work. They are also using some Lendy employees to do the routine work, Col employees were all long gone by the time the administration started in earnest.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 6, 2019 7:29:12 GMT
Let's hope it does work out then. I'd actually compare it against Managed funds vs Index funds. The managed funds systematically perform worse than the index funds because of their fees. Even though it only takes a few %, when it's compounded it removes an enormous % (like 10-30%) of investors return. Seeing for Collateral, the administrators fees are about £1 million / year with a simple loan book, I'd say with Lendy it's going to be much more as they're likely to bring more people in to do the job with the bigger loan book. As has been said before there is little similarity between Col and Lendy. The Col administration fees were heavily front loaded due to picking up the pieces from the wreckage and reconstructing the loan book. Lendy although much bigger should be in much better initial condition for the administrators to just get on and do their work. They are also using some Lendy employees to do the routine work, Col employees were all long gone by the time the administration started in earnest. And, of course, the "new terms" loan book has gone to a separate manager, as per the pre-agreed run-off plan.
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TitoPuente
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Post by TitoPuente on Jun 6, 2019 7:59:17 GMT
And, of course, the "new terms" loan book has gone to a separate manager, as per the pre-agreed run-off plan. What do you mean by "separate manager"? The companies have gone into good old Administration. There is no official indication that there is anything else going on let alone a different process for a given set of loans.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Jun 6, 2019 8:06:18 GMT
And, of course, the "new terms" loan book has gone to a separate manager, as per the pre-agreed run-off plan. What do you mean by "separate manager"? The companies have gone into good old Administration. There is no official indication that there is anything else going on let alone a different process for a given set of loans.
Apparently he believes that this arrangement is exclusively for "new terms" loans.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 6, 2019 8:32:40 GMT
Apparently he believes that this arrangement is exclusively for "new terms" loans. Because for the old terms loans, we lent our money to Lendy Ltd, who lent their money to "the borrower".
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averageguy
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Post by averageguy on Jun 6, 2019 9:09:54 GMT
Let's hope it does work out then. I'd actually compare it against Managed funds vs Index funds. The managed funds systematically perform worse than the index funds because of their fees. Even though it only takes a few %, when it's compounded it removes an enormous % (like 10-30%) of investors return. Seeing for Collateral, the administrators fees are about £1 million / year with a simple loan book, I'd say with Lendy it's going to be much more as they're likely to bring more people in to do the job with the bigger loan book. As has been said before there is little similarity between Col and Lendy. The Col administration fees were heavily front loaded due to picking up the pieces from the wreckage and reconstructing the loan book. Lendy although much bigger should be in much better initial condition for the administrators to just get on and do their work. They are also using some Lendy employees to do the routine work, Col employees were all long gone by the time the administration started in earnest.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Jun 6, 2019 9:32:23 GMT
Apparently he believes that this arrangement is exclusively for "new terms" loans. Because for the old terms loans, we lent our money to Lendy Ltd, who lent their money to "the borrower". Obviously we'll have to wait for the administrator's promised update for a bit more detail of how they're handling this, but it seems to me that it'll be more efficient for the same entity to manage the run-off of the entire loan book, regardless of who they're claiming the money from... i.e. if part of the money ends up being claimed from Lendy (under administration) itself, it would make most sense to me for it to still be routed via the Lendy website managed by the back-up service provider, as that's where all the systems are already in place to distribute any payments received between the large number of investors who hold loan parts.
From a practical point of view, I'd expect all payments to lenders to be routed via the back-up service provider on the Lendy website, regardless of the ultimate source of the payment or the route the monies took to get there. There may be exceptional cases where some lenders are entitled to payments over and above what all other lenders on the same loans would be entitled to, and which may be handled separately, but merely being an "old terms" loan wouldn't seem to qualify for that, as most/all lenders who hold loan parts will have similar claims against the same entities.
In other words, new or old terms, I don't expect individual lenders to be dealing directly with the administrators of Lendy Ltd once they've got everything reconciled and switched over to the run-down arrangements.
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boundah
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Post by boundah on Jun 7, 2019 11:24:32 GMT
I guess it depends on the asset base (just like in divorces). What seems like a huge fee can be a small percentage of the overall sum, so in the case of Lendy I'd prefer top-class practitioners who get on with the job and have the best chance of squeezing most from borrowers (and owners). Let's hope it does work out then. I'd actually compare it against Managed funds vs Index funds. The managed funds systematically perform worse than the index funds because of their fees. Even though it only takes a few %, when it's compounded it removes an enormous % (like 10-30%) of investors return. Seeing for Collateral, the administrators fees are about £1 million / year with a simple loan book, I'd say with Lendy it's going to be much more as they're likely to bring more people in to do the job with the bigger loan book. There's a big difference between taking a percentage of the pot vs an hourly rate. With the latter, the bigger the loan book, the smaller the fee as a %. And as someone else has said further up the thread, COL and LY are very different in that COL's administrators have to spend huge amounts of time tracing and reconciling investments.
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ton27
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Post by ton27 on Jun 7, 2019 19:49:02 GMT
I have experience of working with and seeing what IPs do. Skeptic as I am, my viewpoint is that anyone who thinks the fees are not going to be huge is living in cloud cuckoo land.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 7, 2019 20:51:31 GMT
I have experience of working with and seeing what IPs do. Skeptic as I am, my viewpoint is that anyone who thinks the fees are not going to be huge is living in cloud cuckoo land.
Very much depends on the appointees negotiating skills IIRC correctly a certain platform negotiated a cap on them at £50k, AC had one where no fees were charged until completion & as the receiver went bust...
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