justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2019 10:21:03 GMT
With both collateral and lendy - if the rules are that lenders money should be separate from company assets how on earth can there be " consultations" for using it for payments for administrators ? It beggars belief , if it us the case then all p2p is a collection of a junk level mini bonds. I honestly do not understand how on one hand the rules may say one thing but then allow other. I personally stopped adding to p2p a year ago and if the lender funds are to be considered fair game for administrators then I am suprised the cards house have not collapsed yet with everybody extracting the funds.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2019 12:22:20 GMT
I understand. What I am getting at here is that if as declared lenders funds are separate then risk is very different imo to when they can be raised by platforms administrators.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2019 13:05:26 GMT
Makes sense. But then the claims that it is "separated" are lies so is FCA rule book is a lie ?
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 5, 2019 13:16:56 GMT
i have always assumed no matter what the platforms say about plans to run out the business or fancy terms like p2p wills that in the event of a total platform failure(maybe not a wind down) that the loan money would be used and was always my biggest risk with p2p hence the phrase you may not get all your money back(it does not apply just to the loans in good times).If company goes into administration with no assets as many platforms would what money is there?(i once worked for a company with millions of goods in warehouses and still had to claim my redundancy under govt scheme - so no assets would certainly not bode well) How would the administrators get paid and any money returned to us? I know someone/platform will say things are in place to deal with it but i know what i believe and the early signs from the first companies would seem to suggest thats the way it would go
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ceejay
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Post by ceejay on Jun 5, 2019 13:36:59 GMT
Makes sense. But then the claims that it is "separated" are lies so is FCA rule book is a lie ? Not a lie - if the funds are, as they should be, separated then in normal circumstances then any cash you might have with a platform should not be touched for any other purpose. But, as the previous poster said, if the company goes into administration with little or no assets of its own, then where else are the administration costs going to come from? Plus, separated client funds really only applies to actual cash, and how much of that do we normally keep lying around in our platform accounts? Junk mini bonds is a good description for P2P ... which brings us back to that other thread about how much unsophisticated retail investors should be allowed to put in without being challenged!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 5, 2019 17:24:53 GMT
With both collateral and lendy - if the rules are that lenders money should be separate from company assets how on earth can there be " consultations" for using it for payments for administrators ? Col - Closed for being unregulated and playing outside the rules. Nobody knows how it's going to end up, not least because nobody yet knows whether the loan book is fully recovered. Ly - "New terms" loans, loan separate from company finances - loan book gone to external manager for run-off, Ly Ltd gone to administrators. "Old terms" loans, you were lending to the company, so there never was any separation.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jun 5, 2019 20:01:12 GMT
Makes sense. But then the claims that it is "separated" are lies so is FCA rule book is a lie ? Not a lie - if the funds are, as they should be, separated then in normal circumstances then any cash you might have with a platform should not be touched for any other purpose. But, as the previous poster said, if the company goes into administration with little or no assets of its own, then where else are the administration costs going to come from? Plus, separated client funds really only applies to actual cash, and how much of that do we normally keep lying around in our platform accounts? Junk mini bonds is a good description for P2P ... which brings us back to that other thread about how much unsophisticated retail investors should be allowed to put in without being challenged! But there is a high difference from a junk mini bond equalling the whole investment in one platform versus investment in one loan. How do all other businesses that are not related to lending and do not have so convenient access to lender money s a consequence get administered and administrators get paid for them ? - obviously it somehow happens.
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 5, 2019 21:55:07 GMT
Can only speak of the couple of times i was made redundant and the company closed.In a normal business there would be assets to sell from possibly goods,vans,buildings etc down to the office chairs the money is then paid out to creditors penny on the pound with the insolvency practitioner running the business (and i would assume getting full payment) As i said in another post there may not even be enough money in a business to pay redundancy so the Govt steps in i have even seen a supplier who got wind of a closure send the "boys" round to take back unpaid stock before it became property of the administrators .So its always confused me when P2p platforms say they have plans or so called wills in place when if they become insolvent they would need paying to proceed with the plan
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Godanubis
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Post by Godanubis on Jun 5, 2019 22:14:33 GMT
Can only speak of the couple of times i was made redundant and the company closed.In a normal business there would be assets to sell from possibly goods,vans,buildings etc down to the office chairs the money is then paid out to creditors penny on the pound with the insolvency practitioner running the business (and i would assume getting full payment) As i said in another post there may not even be enough money in a business to pay redundancy so the Govt steps in i have even seen a supplier who got wind of a closure send the "boys" round to take back unpaid stock before it became property of the administrators .So its always confused me when P2p platforms say they have plans or so called wills in place when if they become insolvent they would need paying to proceed with the plan The new loans in Lendy are between you and the borrower by contract neither Lendy or administrative team have any means to take funds ring fenced in this way. The run down of loans should have been accounted for in the wind up pre planning as required for FCA registration.
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macq
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Post by macq on Jun 5, 2019 22:37:44 GMT
Can only speak of the couple of times i was made redundant and the company closed.In a normal business there would be assets to sell from possibly goods,vans,buildings etc down to the office chairs the money is then paid out to creditors penny on the pound with the insolvency practitioner running the business (and i would assume getting full payment) As i said in another post there may not even be enough money in a business to pay redundancy so the Govt steps in i have even seen a supplier who got wind of a closure send the "boys" round to take back unpaid stock before it became property of the administrators .So its always confused me when P2p platforms say they have plans or so called wills in place when if they become insolvent they would need paying to proceed with the plan The new loans in Lendy are between you and the borrower by contract neither Lendy or administrative team have any means to take funds ring fenced in this way. The run down of loans should have been accounted for in the wind up pre planning as required for FCA registration. Its probably a reason i should not be in p2p if i don't know the answer but i have always just assumed the worst - but what your saying about the new loans contract and the accounting for in pre planning is the part i have trouble with.How do you guarantee that when a company becomes insolvent that there is any money left to run the business (even if it should be) And then borrowers stop paying so how does the admin team pay to chase the defaults?
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Jun 5, 2019 23:00:17 GMT
The new loans in Lendy are between you and the borrower by contract neither Lendy or administrative team have any means to take funds ring fenced in this way. The run down of loans should have been accounted for in the wind up pre planning as required for FCA registration. Its probably a reason i should not be in p2p if i don't know the answer but i have always just assumed the worst - but what your saying about the new loans contract and the accounting for in pre planning is the part i have trouble with.How do you guarantee that when a company becomes insolvent that there is any money left to run the business (even if it should be) And then borrowers stop paying so how does the admin team pay to chase the defaults? I would suggest there is no guarantee and normal 'rules' don't necessarily apply - administrators/receivers/insolvency practitioners have quiet wide ranging legal powers and I really think loan terms will make little difference when/if they need to collect fees for their work. But I'm no expert and in Lendy's case we will probably find out in time.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jun 6, 2019 4:24:51 GMT
I would suggest there is no guarantee and normal 'rules' don't necessarily apply - administrators/receivers/insolvency practitioners have quiet wide ranging legal powers and I really think loan terms will make little difference when/if they need to collect fees for their work. But I'm no expert and in Lendy's case we will probably find out in time. The Court ruling in the Beaufort Securities case means that the difference between 'old' and 'new' terms will make little/no difference as to where costs can be recovered from. Time will tell on this one as to the order in which the various 'pots' are accessed.
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duck
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Post by duck on Jun 6, 2019 4:35:32 GMT
The new loans in Lendy are between you and the borrower by contract neither Lendy or administrative team have any means to take funds ring fenced in this way. The run down of loans should have been accounted for in the wind up pre planning as required for FCA registration. On your first point please see my previous comment regarding the Beaufort Securities case. On the second, I hope to hear something from the FCA on that in response to a FOI that I have already sent. With the FCA effectively having control of Lendy in it's dying days (and bringing about it's demise) it would be hard to imagine they didn't look at the wind down arrangements that they had previously agreed to when Lendy was granted approval. 'Interestingly' this topic appeared yesterday in the FCA's latest 'rules' for the sector.
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