sd2
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Apr 26, 2021 13:35:06 GMT
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 13:35:06 GMT
I am fairly certain we are talking about investment trusts and pass performance by the same team. Share price is irrelevant other than in reference to discounts and premium.
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sd2
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Apr 26, 2021 13:54:04 GMT
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 13:54:04 GMT
May I suggest a comparison between Baillie Gifford Uk growth and Henderson Smaller companies www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/h/henderson-smaller-cos-i.t.-ord-25pwww.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/b/baillie-gifford-uk-growth-fund-ord-25pBoth have the same investment strategy Henderson has much better share price growth over 5 years (my preferred measure) And is trading at discount while Baillie is trading at premium Baillie gifford claims that dividends are secondary, good, as they are falling. Henderson are rising BUT this year's wasn't covered. AIC says Henderson has one years worth of reserves. I don't trusts there iac figures for reserves. At very least they are out of date. There is no overlap in there top ten investments Now no doubt there will be the usual snide remarks about the past not a guarantee of the future….really who would have known! You have to use something to come to a decisions on what to buy. I think the figures show that Henderson is a better buy. Would make 2 points Would disagree slightly that both have the same strategy as BG UK Growth is in the all companies sector rather then smaller companies but the main point is that BG have only been running it for about 18 - 24 months (from memory i think they took over from Schroder?) and was at a good discount at the time but the remit on what to invest in and changes are probably only now taking hold But going full circle within the all UK companies sector another Henderson IT normally shows strong with their Opportunities Trust so maybe a better comparison (and maybe the same winner over time) The Baillie Gifford I am quoting has existed for at least 5 years. It is an investment trust? www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/b/baillie-gifford-uk-growth-fund-ord-25p
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sd2
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Apr 26, 2021 13:59:13 GMT
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 13:59:13 GMT
Argh just noticed its been around since 1994. But as you said only recently taken over by Biallie Gifford
PS from the Baillie Gifford site
"The portfolio is a high conviction, concentrated selection of our best ideas in the UK with a bias to mid and smaller cap growth companies, where we intuitively believe the growth spot for UK equities to be"
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macq
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Apr 26, 2021 14:11:10 GMT
Post by macq on Apr 26, 2021 14:11:10 GMT
Would make 2 points Would disagree slightly that both have the same strategy as BG UK Growth is in the all companies sector rather then smaller companies but the main point is that BG have only been running it for about 18 - 24 months (from memory i think they took over from Schroder?) and was at a good discount at the time but the remit on what to invest in and changes are probably only now taking hold But going full circle within the all UK companies sector another Henderson IT normally shows strong with their Opportunities Trust so maybe a better comparison (and maybe the same winner over time) The Baillie Gifford I am quoting has existed for at least 5 years. It is an investment trust? www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/b/baillie-gifford-uk-growth-fund-ord-25pyeah that's the One - IT's have boards and its not unusual for them to sack (or their words replace) the manager and BG took over in mid/late 2018 i believe its also happened in reverse before when BG lost Mid Wynn to Artemis about 5 years back .Much like BG have just been "awarded" the poor performing Keystone trust which was a UK all companies and are turning it into a World ESG type IT (and adding positive change to the name) and clearing a double digit discount in about 2 days at the start when the news broke - which reminds me to look and see how their doing but there's probably a lot of buying and selling first p.s crossed posts
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 14:43:50 GMT
🤣😂🤣 That's the absolute definition of trying to time the market.
Trust me its not.
I admit my choice of words might have been confusing.
I suggest you take some time to consider the point I was trying to make. I'm not going to waste my time spelling it out to you.
of course your not going to explain your point you are far to superior for that! Trolls don't make points they spend their time contradicting, talking down and general snide remarks.
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sd2
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Apr 26, 2021 14:50:46 GMT
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 14:50:46 GMT
So @wallstreet says we should be "Doing solid fundamental analysis" What he is suggesting is we should go through the accounts of every company that all investment trusts own. And ignore past performance. What a silly man!!
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 26, 2021 15:49:12 GMT
So @wallstreet says we should be " Doing solid fundamental analysis" What he is suggesting is we should go through the accounts of every company that all investment trusts own. And ignore past performance. What a silly man!! I just stick my money in a Vanguard account and let them sort it out
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mrdc
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Apr 26, 2021 16:11:51 GMT
Post by mrdc on Apr 26, 2021 16:11:51 GMT
Fundamental analysis hasn,t worked for me. I am a terrible stock picker. Done a bit better with Investment trusts but had problems tacking profits. But by far my best success has been the last 5 years or so. In my isa i am 50% vwrl (stocks), 30%phgp (gold) and 20% itps(US tips) and i rebalance when the difference warrants the cost. In fact the divergance between phgp and vwrl at the moment warrants it. The rebalancing forces me to take profit and takes emotion out of the equation. @wallsreet says looking at past share price is stupid but it,s used to backtest statagies all the time.
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foolsgold
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Apr 26, 2021 16:58:44 GMT
Post by foolsgold on Apr 26, 2021 16:58:44 GMT
Many years ago I used to invest in Unit trusts then converted to Investment trust as I believe they are a lot better and also HL were a bit naughty as when you used their comparison software it defaulted to price rather than percentage rise when comparing the UT to the IT run by the same manager.This was done to encourage investors to invest in UT as they made commission off them and very little off ITs..Stuck in a complaint to the FCA and it was upheld so Im now a firm fan of ITs.
About 6 years ago I spent a lot of time researching differnt sectors to decide how my asset allocation would be set up and rebalanced every 6 months which was expenisve as well.SAfter many years I did a side by side comparison against global UTs and ITs and individual sectors and found that the global funds outperfomed my whole foilio so I thought what the point of spending time doing all that so now just invest in Global ITs after much research.
Now you may ask why am I asking about the likes of IIT and Baillie Gifford Uk growth trust.Reason is I believ that the UK sector will outperform the rest of the world whislt much of the Global trusts havnt adjusted for this soi I am trying to compensate.
Ive also got Finsbury UK growth trust as well as Temple bar and IIT...I will take a look at Henderson trust as mentioned before
Global trust of which I own are SMT...mid wynd...F&C (not impressed)...Bailloie Gifford US growth trust (brilliant trust)....Smithson...Scottish American...Edinburgh Worldwide...Monks...Dunedin...and a few more...given that I dont use an FA think Ive dione extremely well.
Any other global trusts that people use??
What rescources do people use ??
Trustnet is useful
Morningstar was usefull a few years ago but many of the reseacth tools are no longre available unless you upgrade...citywire used to be good but find it hard to navigate.
HL are very good for research if you manipulat the software comparison tool
Any other ones that people use would be appreciated?
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 17:10:01 GMT
Many years ago I used to invest in Unit trusts then converted to Investment trust as I believe they are a lot better and also HL were a bit naughty as when you used their comparison software it defaulted to price rather than percentage rise when comparing the UT to the IT run by the same manager.This was done to encourage investors to invest in UT as they made commission off them and very little off ITs..Stuck in a complaint to the FCA and it was upheld so Im now a firm fan of ITs.
About 6 years ago I spent a lot of time researching differnt sectors to decide how my asset allocation would be set up and rebalanced every 6 months which was expenisve as well.SAfter many years I did a side by side comparison against global UTs and ITs and individual sectors and found that the global funds outperfomed my whole foilio so I thought what the point of spending time doing all that so now just invest in Global ITs after much research.
Now you may ask why am I asking about the likes of IIT and Baillie Gifford Uk growth trust.Reason is I believ that the UK sector will outperform the rest of the world whislt much of the Global trusts havnt adjusted for this soi I am trying to compensate.
Ive also got Finsbury UK growth trust as well as Temple bar and IIT...I will take a look at Henderson trust as mentioned before
Global trust of which I own are SMT...mid wynd...F&C (not impressed)...Bailloie Gifford US growth trust (brilliant trust)....Smithson...Scottish American...Edinburgh Worldwide...Monks...Dunedin...and a few more...given that I dont use an FA think Ive dione extremely well.
Any other global trusts that people use??
What rescources do people use ??
Trustnet is useful
Morningstar was usefull a few years ago but many of the reseacth tools are no longre available unless you upgrade...citywire used to be good but find it hard to navigate.
HL are very good for research if you manipulat the software comparison tool
Any other ones that people use would be appreciated?
AIC
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 17:49:13 GMT
I use Stockopedia once a year, it costs nothing for 2 weeks and the quality of pure data is useful. Trustnet is good for funds.
One of the stories to learn in life is some people are consistently good at investing and then there are the rest, I find investing in the people who are consistently good makes me a lot of money. There is only one way to find them, yes it is nice to have a good story to support the price but really that is more about the awareness of others, and I cannot control others.
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macq
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Post by macq on Apr 26, 2021 17:55:55 GMT
Many years ago I used to invest in Unit trusts then converted to Investment trust as I believe they are a lot better and also HL were a bit naughty as when you used their comparison software it defaulted to price rather than percentage rise when comparing the UT to the IT run by the same manager.This was done to encourage investors to invest in UT as they made commission off them and very little off ITs..Stuck in a complaint to the FCA and it was upheld so Im now a firm fan of ITs.
About 6 years ago I spent a lot of time researching differnt sectors to decide how my asset allocation would be set up and rebalanced every 6 months which was expenisve as well.SAfter many years I did a side by side comparison against global UTs and ITs and individual sectors and found that the global funds outperfomed my whole foilio so I thought what the point of spending time doing all that so now just invest in Global ITs after much research.
Now you may ask why am I asking about the likes of IIT and Baillie Gifford Uk growth trust.Reason is I believ that the UK sector will outperform the rest of the world whislt much of the Global trusts havnt adjusted for this soi I am trying to compensate.
Ive also got Finsbury UK growth trust as well as Temple bar and IIT...I will take a look at Henderson trust as mentioned before
Global trust of which I own are SMT...mid wynd...F&C (not impressed)...Bailloie Gifford US growth trust (brilliant trust)....Smithson...Scottish American...Edinburgh Worldwide...Monks...Dunedin...and a few more...given that I dont use an FA think Ive dione extremely well.
Any other global trusts that people use??
What rescources do people use ??
Trustnet is useful
Morningstar was usefull a few years ago but many of the reseacth tools are no longre available unless you upgrade...citywire used to be good but find it hard to navigate.
HL are very good for research if you manipulat the software comparison tool
Any other ones that people use would be appreciated?
AIC Its really hard to recommend investments on a forum as we each have different views (and you also don't want them to come back and bite you on the bum)But its interesting that having decided that your allocations and time would be best served by a global outlook you are now looking to swerve back again and be brave and put a lot of trust in good old blighty.Apart from individual sectors such as health,ESG and other niche areas etc you seem to have the world market covered and from the UK you might have a look at Law Debenture (which has a business within the trust which covers about a third of the divs) Purely from an interest point of view rather then data there is the blog IT investor which you might find worth a read
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Apr 26, 2021 18:57:04 GMT
If you own a number of investment trusts, is this sensible diversification? Or do you reach a point where the different approaches of them all average out, and you might as well have bought a global tracker?
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Apr 26, 2021 19:46:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 19:46:39 GMT
For sure, could be.
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Apr 26, 2021 20:16:06 GMT
Many years ago I used to invest in Unit trusts then converted to Investment trust as I believe they are a lot better and also HL were a bit naughty as when you used their comparison software it defaulted to price rather than percentage rise when comparing the UT to the IT run by the same manager.This was done to encourage investors to invest in UT as they made commission off them and very little off ITs..Stuck in a complaint to the FCA and it was upheld so Im now a firm fan of ITs.
About 6 years ago I spent a lot of time researching differnt sectors to decide how my asset allocation would be set up and rebalanced every 6 months which was expenisve as well.SAfter many years I did a side by side comparison against global UTs and ITs and individual sectors and found that the global funds outperfomed my whole foilio so I thought what the point of spending time doing all that so now just invest in Global ITs after much research.
Now you may ask why am I asking about the likes of IIT and Baillie Gifford Uk growth trust.Reason is I believ that the UK sector will outperform the rest of the world whislt much of the Global trusts havnt adjusted for this soi I am trying to compensate.
Ive also got Finsbury UK growth trust as well as Temple bar and IIT...I will take a look at Henderson trust as mentioned before
Global trust of which I own are SMT...mid wynd...F&C (not impressed)...Bailloie Gifford US growth trust (brilliant trust)....Smithson...Scottish American...Edinburgh Worldwide...Monks...Dunedin...and a few more...given that I dont use an FA think Ive dione extremely well.
Any other global trusts that people use??
What rescources do people use ??
Trustnet is useful
Morningstar was usefull a few years ago but many of the reseacth tools are no longre available unless you upgrade...citywire used to be good but find it hard to navigate.
HL are very good for research if you manipulat the software comparison tool
Any other ones that people use would be appreciated?
During and after the crash I was after investment trusts which offered both income and growth. As a general rule but not 100% true, the higher the growth the lower the dividend. And vice versa. So looking at Share price growth over 5 years Dividend Dividend growth over 5 years using aic and then checking on Hargreaves Lansdown each yearly dividend and wherever it was covered. I discovered for instance that Blackrock North American Income, average Dividend increase of 13% per year for 5 years consisted of two small increases followed by 61% increase followed by no increase for 2 years. The last 3 years the dividends were not covered. Size of Dividend reserve. Nothing whatsoever in big tech Prefer to avoid China if possible These are the basics but I was happy to go off track for a bargain namely Smithson. At this point in time I would be looking for something along these lines. Headline Dividend of 3.75% and share price gain of 45% over 5 years. At least 3% average increase in dividends per year. Dividend reserve of at least 6 months. Also at this point in time I would like to know how much the trusts income has fallen. North american income Trust ticks all the boxes on share price gain and dividends. Average increase in dividends 8.6% all covered. .9 years dividend reserve. A significant increase in income this year as in they expect to increase there dividend reserve. Also on 8% discount. And I have no money left to invest!! Although I did get some in December. Now obviously as we move on the figures are changing. During the crash I had to take into account discounts and compare them to average discounts. There was no chance of 45% gain and of course the dividend would be...huge!! Just as an aside sometimes you wander why some investment trust trade at their discounts or premiums. For instance at this point Murray International has 29% share price gain and 4.3% dividend. Its in the ii60 and normally trades at premium of about 3%. Now the manager definitely doesn't follow the herd. 19% US holdings should be around 40%. Prefers to have more in emerging markets. Although generally very Conservative holdings. His view is developed countries have to much debt, both government and consumers and we will go tits up tomorrow or best next Tuesday. And then we have NAIT trading at discount and just been removed from ii60 for poor performance? Okay they are different but at the very least does Murray International deserve its premium? I should state i also own Murray International. In fact I doubled up on the day. The second purchase was 5% higher an hour later. It was 24th March so on the bounce. I am up 40% and on an actual dividend of 6.2%. So I can't complain. So foolsgold possibly Murray International just to be a little contrary.
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