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Post by planetx on Oct 21, 2014 19:11:26 GMT
I don't know if there's been any discussion about this in the Pink Place of Secrets, but I've got purchases of loan units as small as 0.16 in my transaction summary now. I guess that means the units are now completely divisible and will be broken up when sold in order to be divided among the various buyers. If so then it seems a significant change and I've been wondering what the consequences might be. I would think it will cause the number of loan parts to increase significantly, and potentially generate a very large number of transactions on the statement making it more difficult to keep track of them.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 21, 2014 19:26:04 GMT
I don't know if there's been any discussion about this in the Pink Place of Secrets, but I've got purchases of loan units as small as 0.16 in my transaction summary now. I guess that means the units are now completely divisible and will be broken up when sold in order to be divided among the various buyers. If so then it seems a significant change and I've been wondering what the consequences might be. I would think it will cause the number of loan parts to increase significantly, and potentially generate a very large number of transactions on the statement making it more difficult to keep track of them. Perhaps I've missed something but the system seems to be trying to get me to my original holding. I thought the plan was that as loans amort Lenders would continue to hold the same percentage.
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Post by batchoy on Oct 21, 2014 19:34:05 GMT
I don't know if there's been any discussion about this in the Pink Place of Secrets, but I've got purchases of loan units as small as 0.16 in my transaction summary now. I guess that means the units are now completely divisible and will be broken up when sold in order to be divided among the various buyers. If so then it seems a significant change and I've been wondering what the consequences might be. I would think it will cause the number of loan parts to increase significantly, and potentially generate a very large number of transactions on the statement making it more difficult to keep track of them. Perhaps I've missed something but the system seems to be trying to get me to my original holding. I thought the plan was that as loans amort Lenders would continue to hold the same percentage. The issue currently running in the Pink is the fact that the MAI cannot be turned off so it will always try and match your target making all loans effectively bullet loans regardless of whether they are actually bullet loans or amortising loans. The upgrade has copied the AI target to the MAI target, if there was no AI target the MAI target has been set to the value of the holding at upgrade, but if there was AI that had been been set but disabled the MAI has reinstated that target i.e. if you set the target to £5000 but disabled it when your holding reached £100 because you changed your mind the MAI is now seeking to increase your holding to £5000. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that loans are completely divisible and the MAI is trading in micro slices.
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Post by planetx on Oct 21, 2014 19:57:53 GMT
The issue currently running in the Pink is the fact that the MAI cannot be turned off so it will always try and match your target making all loans effectively bullet loans regardless of whether they are actually bullet loans or amortising loans. The upgrade has copied the AI target to the MAI target, if there was no AI target the MAI target has been set to the value of the holding at upgrade, but if there was AI the had been set but disabled the AI has reinstated that target i.e. if you set the target to £5000 but disabled it when you holding reach £100 because you changed your mind the MAI is now seeking to increase your holding to £5000. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that loans are completely divisible and the MAI is trading in micro slices. Thanks. That's a bit messy; there will be a lot of people out there who haven't been reading (here or the Pink) and are going to find MAI transactions they don't understand. I imagine having a new algorithm that the lender hasn't enabled or understood doing things with their money is probably going to make some people pretty unhappy.
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Post by batchoy on Oct 21, 2014 20:16:21 GMT
The issue currently running in the Pink is the fact that the MAI cannot be turned off so it will always try and match your target making all loans effectively bullet loans regardless of whether they are actually bullet loans or amortising loans. The upgrade has copied the AI target to the MAI target, if there was no AI target the MAI target has been set to the value of the holding at upgrade, but if there was AI the had been set but disabled the AI has reinstated that target i.e. if you set the target to £5000 but disabled it when you holding reach £100 because you changed your mind the MAI is now seeking to increase your holding to £5000. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that loans are completely divisible and the MAI is trading in micro slices. Thanks. That's a bit messy; there will be a lot of people out there who haven't been reading (here or the Pink) and are going to find MAI transactions they don't understand. I imagine having a new algorithm that the lender hasn't enabled or understood doing things with their money is probably going to make some people pretty unhappy. Unhappy is an understatement, I have a holding which I bought using the AI but turned the AI off because although I am happy to hold the loan term amortising as it goes, the upgrade has reinstated the target and has been merrily increasing my holding as repayment have come in today. I am now going to have to login and edit my MAI targets each time payments come in to ensure my targets amotrise with the loan, and that fund go into loans that I do want to hold rather than one that I dnon't want to hold and may be proving unpopular with other lenders and so are readily available for purchase.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 21, 2014 20:33:19 GMT
I am equally unhappy about but fortunately decided to turn off my AI mandates and drained cash out of my account before the "upgrade" occurred. Problem is I dare not invest any amount until I have checked all the targets and current holdings match. Moreover, this will be a nightmare since I will need to check every day to see if an amortization has occurred to change to target level. I don't understand why more people aren't bothered by this. This is an important issue and I'm sure it can't be too hard to sort out. Namely that we only hold the same percentage of the loan. Can I ask chris to say, perhaps in a new thread, what he recognizes as issues (as there's quite a list) that need to be addressed and when they might be sorted out? (a bug list) I recognize that chris and his team have already sorted out a number of issues and are working very hard, and I say thank you for being so available and helpful.
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ianb
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Post by ianb on Oct 21, 2014 20:45:26 GMT
I concur with Ton ⓉⓞⓃ, we need to know what is recognised as bugs or tweaks. Personally I am not unhappy with the new AI operation of topping up the loans when principal is repaid but we need a user loan level button which says whether to do this or not (IMHO) |
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Oct 21, 2014 21:12:57 GMT
Surely when a loan principal repayment is made on an amortizing loan it should reduce the target at the same time.
I think that is the most intuitive way to operate and what one would naturally expect to happen.
Hopefully AC will make this change in the next week or two.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 21, 2014 21:25:29 GMT
Surely when a loan principle repayment is made on an amortizing loan it should reduce the target at the same time. I think that is the most intuitive way to operate and what one would naturally expect to happen. Hopefully AC will make this change in the next week or two. As already discussed elsewhere - it's intuitive and wanted by many (maybe even most) of you, but not to all of us or by all of us. I (and others) intuitively want to maintain my holding amount and so it needs to be optional.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Oct 21, 2014 21:32:45 GMT
I concur with Ton ⓉⓞⓃ, we need to know what is recognised as bugs or tweaks. Personally I am not unhappy with the new AI operation of topping up the loans when principal is repaid but we need a user loan level button which says whether to do this or not (IMHO) As Chris has posted elsewhere it is not actually new. However, other changes (particularly, but not only, the change to make loans almost infinitely divisible) have made it much more of an issue. I hate it because I want my loans to amortise. And I don't mean hate as in don't like change. I really hate it. Having my amortising loans amortise is fundamental to my risk management.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 21, 2014 21:36:09 GMT
Given that:
- lenders who never set an auto-invest target have had one set for them without their knowledge or consent.
- as loans amortise, the system will now interpret this target as an instruction to attempt to buy more of that loan.
Is there any legal compliance issue with a system that automatically spends a lender's money on loan units that the lender never instructed the system to buy?
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Post by Come_on_Grandad on Oct 21, 2014 21:39:04 GMT
Surely when a loan principle repayment is made on an amortizing loan it should reduce the target at the same time. I think that is the most intuitive way to operate and what one would naturally expect to happen. Hopefully AC will make this change in the next week or two. As already discussed elsewhere - it's intuitive and wanted by many (maybe even most) of you, but not to all of us or by all of us. I (and others) intuitively want to maintain my holding amount and so it needs to be optional. It's fair enough wanting options, Rose. But for an amortizing loan, the default must be that the target is automatically reduced by the amount of principal returned.
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ramblin rose
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“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 21, 2014 21:45:26 GMT
As already discussed elsewhere - it's intuitive and wanted by many (maybe even most) of you, but not to all of us or by all of us. I (and others) intuitively want to maintain my holding amount and so it needs to be optional. It's fair enough wanting options, Rose. But for an amortizing loan, the default must be that the target is automatically reduced by the amount of principal returned. More than happy for you to have that as a default option gramps, and genuinely sad that the possibility to have it happen was taken away from you in the update - hopefully it will be restored to you soon. But, I equally strongly feel we need the option to keep the target as it started, just as we also had in the old system. Neither should have been taken away in the first place, but we shouldn't replace one with the other, is all I'm saying. Edit: in the old system, the default was your target didn't reduce unless you did jiggery pokery with the loan percentage in AI - and how many people actually did that I wonder? Edit2: Only people who had largish and/or long-standing holdings would have been affected by not having done the jiggery pokery, because many loans wouldn't have amortised far enough for the shortfall from the target to be big enough that new units would have been bought. It's now become an issue because even a 1p unit would be bought. Edit3 (last one, honest): just realised from reading another thread, that of course there was the option to leave AI completely off in the old system, so those people (probably most in fact) would have their holding just decrease in value in that case.
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Oct 21, 2014 21:52:31 GMT
Given that: - lenders who never set an auto-invest target have had one set for them without their knowledge or consent. - as loans amortise, the system will now interpret this target as an instruction to attempt to buy more of that loan. Is there any legal compliance issue with a system that automatically spends a lender's money on loan units that the lender never instructed the system to buy? I'm sure there are all sorts of FCA problems with an algorithm running amok and buying and selling stuff without authorization. 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Sale of loan part 851081 (new id 851142) for 0.03 GBP with a fee of 0 GBP - principal 0.03, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Lei! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Sale of loan part 851081 (new id 851141) for 0.96 GBP with a fee of 0 GBP - principal 0.96, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Lei! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Purchase loan part 850917 (old id 850620) for 0.97 GBP - principal 0.97, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Leisure Business Loan ! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Purchase loan part 850914 (old id 850565) for 0.03 GBP - principal 0.03, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Leisure Business Loan ! What? I have (had!) no mandate in place to buy these OR sell them. Target = Holding before AND after this transaction. Where did the penny go, and how has a loan part sold twice (check the part ID)? Time to the put brakes on the MAI yet? I want to be able to use MAI to get an investment chunk/top up in existing (old) loans that I'm not fully topped up on, and in new ones that I have nothing in, up to my limit. And then STOP THERE. I do not want MAI selling stuff behind my back, or buying little slices to keep topping up back to a target I reached and was happy with. That requires an OFF button for each loan to stop MAI, which we don't currently have.
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ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
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Post by ramblin rose on Oct 21, 2014 22:05:41 GMT
Given that: - lenders who never set an auto-invest target have had one set for them without their knowledge or consent. - as loans amortise, the system will now interpret this target as an instruction to attempt to buy more of that loan. Is there any legal compliance issue with a system that automatically spends a lender's money on loan units that the lender never instructed the system to buy? I'm sure there are all sorts of FCA problems with an algorithm running amok and buying and selling stuff without authorization. 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Sale of loan part 851081 (new id 851142) for 0.03 GBP with a fee of 0 GBP - principal 0.03, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Lei! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Sale of loan part 851081 (new id 851141) for 0.96 GBP with a fee of 0 GBP - principal 0.96, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Lei! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Purchase loan part 850917 (old id 850620) for 0.97 GBP - principal 0.97, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Leisure Business Loan ! 21st Oct 2014 at 22:27 Purchase loan part 850914 (old id 850565) for 0.03 GBP - principal 0.03, annualised rate 13.500, loan: Yorkshire Leisure Business Loan ! What? I have (had!) no mandate in place to buy these OR sell them. Target = Holding before AND after this transaction. Where did the penny go, and how has a loan part sold twice (check the part ID)? Time to the put brakes on the MAI yet? I want to be able to use MAI to get an investment chunk/top up in existing (old) loans that I'm not fully topped up on, and in new ones that I have nothing in, up to my limit. And then STOP THERE. I do not want MAI selling stuff behind my back, or buying little slices to keep topping up back to a target I reached and was happy with. That requires an OFF button for each loan to stop MAI, which we don't currently have. Interesting. At 22:27 I purchased a 2p part and a 98p part of that same loan. Difference is I'm way below my target on that loan and wanted them, so no selling occurred and it was all as it should be. Will need to keep an eye on those loans where I'm at target already - nothing of that sort has happened with them so far for me.
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