sd2
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Post by sd2 on Sept 25, 2019 22:48:54 GMT
It is easy to define normal market conditions, it is when the private investors are NOT panicking. You only have to look at Funding Circle. Everyone suddenly wants out because bad debt has risen. You would think it was collateral or Lendy!! In the case of Assertz capital I suspect there will be an increase in withdrawals as the cashbacks end. Not necessarily a panic but some will have noted what's go on at funding circle. Personally I am getting ready for decent stock market fall so I can put my money into investment trusts. Mainly owned by retail investors and where share prices fall way way below nav. Not quite  Bad debt reached an alarming point about two years ago, and yet many people are still actively investing on FC. Similarly, there were clear signs at Q2 2017 of SS/Lendy business is going wrong, yet investments kept going. There could be an increase in withdrawals on AC when bonuses end, but this could be stopped by introducing new bonuses as it happened before. Also bonuses are rather small to have a significant influence on investors decisions. Just a thought, I might be wrong. I have read somewhere probably on the FC forum that it is taking a 100+ days to sell out. Assertz capital its instant in the quick access account. An extra 1% cashback over 6 months annualized is 2%. If your money is in the quick access account that 1% annualized or not is very good deal.
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Post by df on Sept 25, 2019 22:59:50 GMT
Capping my peer to peer investments is the best I can do, no advice but its my views. I'm trying to keep my p2p at below 30%, the rest of my funds are in FSCScheme. Any larger explosion to any investment scheme is far too risky for me. 10% would probably be more sensible, but everyone has their own margin and attitude to risk.
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sd2
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Post by sd2 on Sept 25, 2019 23:02:56 GMT
why are "business-type loans" the greatest risk in a a recession? Two of those you mentioned are primarily property loans. I thought GS was invoice discounting. What about consumer debt? Are you implying that it's easier to chase a defaulted domestic borrower for a domestic-sized £amount than a business for a larger amount? Sold out of growth street. Put £5,000 at 5.3% got £200 after 1 year. That's 9.4% reasonable relative to risk. Will sell out of assertz capital around the 7th with exception of £2,000 so I don't miss out on the £100 bonus. Would like to get out of property partner but would have to take a big hit. Also I am mainly in student accommodation so getting a half decent return.
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Post by Harland Kearney on Sept 26, 2019 11:08:53 GMT
Not quite Bad debt reached an alarming point about two years ago, and yet many people are still actively investing on FC. Similarly, there were clear signs at Q2 2017 of SS/Lendy business is going wrong, yet investments kept going. There could be an increase in withdrawals on AC when bonuses end, but this could be stopped by introducing new bonuses as it happened before. Also bonuses are rather small to have a significant influence on investors decisions. Just a thought, I might be wrong. I have read somewhere probably on the FC forum that it is taking a 100+ days to sell out. Assertz capital its instant in the quick access account. An extra 1% cashback over 6 months annualized is 2%. If your money is in the quick access account that 1% annualized or not is very good deal. I believe the main risk factor is not around returns, its simply being locked in 100 percent with platform risk. Platform risk to me has "scared" me away from P2P entirely. From other investment backgrounds platform risk is usally non-existant (Take Hargreaves for example). It's instant access until a very barely regulated platform tells you your money is gone forever and here come the administrators. As I put above, I've lost nothing so I have no grudges. I purely observed the panic and mayhem COL and then Lendy caused on this forum. No offence to others but its a postion I'd rather not be in, and it easily avoidble. (now with hindsight, just don't use P2P on a large scale) I believe Peer to Peer risk is fairly similar to that of equities, when you are hand picking loans even more so. You should be invested for at least 3 years or more to turn over a real return when including inflation. Both are corrlated to economy crashes, except Peer to Peer carries a risk to capital of 100 percent, where equities as history shows us recovers (if u lost 100 percent, then get your canned food ready). I don't know if the same can be said for alot of defaulted platforms right now. Why P2P is this thread, to me I just see P2P as a asset type that is as risky as equties but giving less compounding long term returns and far far inferior asset security (relying you pick a strong fund in S&S, Fundsmith, LTG, CGT) I will be using Assets Capital as a short term parking space for cash, until it can be rotated into equities or bonds. For me it really shines at reducing cash drag in a overall portfilio. Each to their own.
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Post by df on Sept 26, 2019 20:25:09 GMT
why are "business-type loans" the greatest risk in a a recession? Two of those you mentioned are primarily property loans. I thought GS was invoice discounting. What about consumer debt? Are you implying that it's easier to chase a defaulted domestic borrower for a domestic-sized £amount than a business for a larger amount? Sold out of growth street. Put £5,000 at 5.3% got £200 after 1 year. That's 9.4% reasonable relative to risk. Will sell out of assertz capital around the 7th with exception of £2,000 so I don't miss out on the £100 bonus. Would like to get out of property partner but would have to take a big hit. Also I am mainly in student accommodation so getting a half decent return. £200 out of 5k @5.3% in 1 year looks to me like 4% return. You should be getting £265 @5.3% (+any bonuses), unless you were drip feeding. I've never been in property partner, but my funds in AC and GS combined is 35% of my p2p. I'm planning to reduce these two slightly in near future, but I think they will continue to stay as my main platforms for a while.
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Post by jon3001 on Sept 29, 2019 14:13:32 GMT
Sold out of growth street. Put £5,000 at 5.3% got £200 after 1 year. That's 9.4% reasonable relative to risk. Will sell out of assertz capital around the 7th with exception of £2,000 so I don't miss out on the £100 bonus. Would like to get out of property partner but would have to take a big hit. Also I am mainly in student accommodation so getting a half decent return. £200 out of 5k @5.3% in 1 year looks to me like 4% return. You should be getting £265 @5.3% (+any bonuses), unless you were drip feeding. I've never been in property partner, but my funds in AC and GS combined is 35% of my p2p. I'm planning to reduce these two slightly in near future, but I think they will continue to stay as my main platforms for a while. I wonder if the £200 being referred to was an introduction bonus for keeping funds in for 12 months? 4% + 5.3% = 9.3%
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Post by df on Sept 29, 2019 21:55:00 GMT
£200 out of 5k @5.3% in 1 year looks to me like 4% return. You should be getting £265 @5.3% (+any bonuses), unless you were drip feeding. I've never been in property partner, but my funds in AC and GS combined is 35% of my p2p. I'm planning to reduce these two slightly in near future, but I think they will continue to stay as my main platforms for a while. I wonder if the £200 being referred to was an introduction bonus for keeping funds in for 12 months? 4% + 5.3% = 9.3% That makes sense. 3rd Oct 2018 offer - £100 for you and £200 for your friend if they invest 5k for a year. Very generous offer. I've introduced my wife, couldn't resist...
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sd2
Member of DD Central
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Post by sd2 on Sept 30, 2019 23:01:40 GMT
I wonder if the £200 being referred to was an introduction bonus for keeping funds in for 12 months? 4% + 5.3% = 9.3% That makes sense. 3rd Oct 2018 offer - £100 for you and £200 for your friend if they invest 5k for a year. Very generous offer. I've introduced my wife, couldn't resist... Correct
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sd2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 621
Likes: 224
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Post by sd2 on Oct 2, 2019 9:26:47 GMT
It is easy to define normal market conditions, it is when the private investors are NOT panicking. You only have to look at Funding Circle. Everyone suddenly wants out because bad debt has risen. You would think it was collateral or Lendy!! In the case of Assertz capital I suspect there will be an increase in withdrawals as the cashbacks end. Not necessarily a panic but some will have noted what's go on at funding circle. Personally I am getting ready for decent stock market fall so I can put my money into investment trusts. Mainly owned by retail investors and where share prices fall way way below nav. Not quite Bad debt reached an alarming point about two years ago, and yet many people are still actively investing on FC. Similarly, there were clear signs at Q2 2017 of SS/Lendy business is going wrong, yet investments kept going. There could be an increase in withdrawals on AC when bonuses end, but this could be stopped by introducing new bonuses as it happened before. Also bonuses are rather small to have a significant influence on investors decisions. Just a thought, I might be wrong. Yep bonuses added. 5% for using a standing order for 6 month BUT does it require you NOT to take money out?? Anyone I am to lazy to check? PS bonus like 1% cashback is hardly small if you are invested in QQA. It's an extra 25% interest. Also as it over 6 months. Annualised that's 2%. Bonus sizes are relative to investment (poor people like myself!) gain big time, I made 35% on the £500 investment in kufflink without the interest on the loans..... sweet!
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Oct 2, 2019 21:32:11 GMT
On regulation, I would like to see only that which ensures platforms are honest. e.g. I invest 10K or whatever in a platform that tells me that money has been lent to a property developer for a specific project but in reality it has gone towards a new holiday for the owner...
I certainly don't want a regulator telling anyone they can't spend their money as they see fit. Why don't we have regulators for jewelry, boats, charters and cars? Perhaps there should be warnings sewn into expensive clothing that suggest by purchasing the item you might be wasting your money?
I get very frustrated by (mostly pompous) folk telling others that they need to undergo financial training before they can spend their own money. The gist from them is "....you're a financial idiot and you really shouldn't be spending or investing any of your hard earned cash without paying an expert like me to advise you...."
If you take this kind of regulation to the extreme you end up with pseudo communism where ownership of cash is not very important. In soviet Russia for example, lots of people had plenty of rubles but what mattered and what was coveted there/then was not the amount of cash but the end goal of (for example) a new car or a new flat. To obtain these, money was the least of people's worries. The main issue was permission from various authorities and that was much harder to obtain.
In other words, if you create these regulatory hurdles you diminish the value of money which in turn makes a market economy much harder to function as it ought to. After all , how can a financial market factor in a gazillion different out-of-band permissions, qualifications and side deals its participants require?
A by-product of all this is to create a financially aware elite that feel comfortable "educating" the rest of us on how to navigate the rules so that they too might benefit from over regulation.
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Post by davee39 on Oct 2, 2019 21:55:49 GMT
Why don't we have regulators for jewelry, boats, charters and cars? We do. It is called the sale of goods act and is usually implemented via a warranty. If your car does not operate as intended you are entitled to a repair, refund or replacement. A P2P product is not about people spending money how they want. It is a risk product. Fundamentally it might not provide the expected return or it might be heavily loss making. It would be rather like a dealer selling cars at a discount with a risk warning that one in ten vehicles have not been fitted with brakes. As we have seen the P2P world is not without a few shady characters capable of sucking in even knowledgeable investors with there charm. All is of course well until we find the fan has been obliterated. The state cares little about your expensive clothing, but it is rather concerned that your savings are not consumed by a whirlpool of complex and risky transactions. Most investors do not appreciate the risk of a simple product like Ratesetter. Wellesley looked great, and perfectly safe, run by good, honest city folks in smart suits, until the business model failed regulation and its lenders. Feel free to certify yourself as high net worth or as a sophisticated investor. The rest of us could do with a little more regulation and an FCA with sharpened dentures.
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Post by propman on Oct 3, 2019 8:05:54 GMT
Sorry, I agree with Michael. Fair enough that the product warns you that your money is at risk, the rest is down to the investor to understand. I find the misselling scandals populist rubbish. If people didn't understand that their endowments were a risk, i think it should be the lawyers who acted for them that should be liable not the sellers! Similarly for those who ticked the box for PPI but didn't meet the criteria for payouts that is in the same box as buying expensive clothes they are never going to wear in my book!
I would also be much happier if FCA made the rulebook for the investment industry and ensured people those handling our moneystuck to it. Unless a product has the capacity to lose more than is invested, I don't think there is much distinction from "buying" an investment or a Ferarri.
- PM
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Post by martin44 on Oct 3, 2019 23:19:02 GMT
Why don't we have regulators for jewelry, boats, charters and cars? We do. It is called the sale of goods act and is usually implemented via a warranty. If your car does not operate as intended you are entitled to a repair, refund or replacement. A P2P product is not about people spending money how they want. It is a risk product. Fundamentally it might not provide the expected return or it might be heavily loss making. It would be rather like a dealer selling cars at a discount with a risk warning that one in ten vehicles have not been fitted with brakes. As we have seen the P2P world is not without a few shady characters capable of sucking in even knowledgeable investors with there charm. All is of course well until we find the fan has been obliterated. The state cares little about your expensive clothing, but it is rather concerned that your savings are not consumed by a whirlpool of complex and risky transactions. Most investors do not appreciate the risk of a simple product like Ratesetter. Wellesley looked great, and perfectly safe, run by good, honest city folks in smart suits, until the business model failed regulation and its lenders.
Feel free to certify yourself as high net worth or as a sophisticated investor. The rest of us could do with a little more regulation and an FCA with sharpened dentures. Quite right. Thomas cook would surely not take your booking monies the day before the announcement.. perish the thought.
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Bad debt reached an alarming point about two years ago, and yet many people are still actively investing on FC. Similarly, there were clear signs at Q2 2017 of SS/Lendy business is going wrong, yet investments kept going. 
