rscal
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Post by rscal on Aug 6, 2019 14:18:47 GMT
It presumably means that reinvestment time will be reduced as fewer existing customers make use of it and take their interest. 5% for 'no fee access' sounds good so may prove popular. Personally I haven't (successfully) put any money in yet as I'm put off by the investment queue.
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Post by propman on Aug 6, 2019 15:27:53 GMT
Not sure why you think queues will be shorter, although there should not be any differential between the products in lending times.
Not sure on the marketing, fleible very prominently states:
- Ideal for shorter-term investors who may need early access to their investment.
As they spell out at the end, no guarantee that money can wbe withdrawn so anyone who may NEED the money within the loan periods shouldn't invest it in LW.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Aug 6, 2019 15:54:58 GMT
The key characteristics of the Flexible Product are: (a) Your money will be invested in loans for terms from 2 months up to 5 years (b) You can sell your loans and withdraw cash with no early access fees, provided we can find new investors to purchase your loans (c) You will not be able to make any new lending offers for a period of 28 days after selling loans within this product Matthew , could you please clarify what happen to the accrued interest when you sell a loan part in the flexible and growth product?
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Post by df on Aug 6, 2019 16:29:38 GMT
It presumably means that reinvestment time will be reduced as fewer existing customers make use of it and take their interest. 5% for 'no fee access' sounds good so may prove popular. Personally I haven't (successfully) put any money in yet as I'm put off by the investment queue. Why do you think existing customers will start withdrawing their interest? I'm in 5-year - the name change 'Growth' doesn't make any difference to me. Slightly reduced withdrawal fee (which is nice), otherwise it is the same product. I think most existing 3-year investors will benefit from this change, can't see any disadvantages for them. This new 'Access' product is likely to attract new investors (it is very competitive on 'quick access' part of p2p market). If that works, then the queues might get longer.
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 7, 2019 8:25:17 GMT
Leaving aside the concerns I've raised already re: the PF, I'm a bit surprised they've moved in the direction of making lending more easy access. Although I can see how it'd be more appealing for some investors, I'd been half-expecting platforms such as this to move in the other direction to be honest. They'll now introduce the potential for a run on their funds, something I'd imagine other platforms are a bit nervy about with No-Deal Brexit possibly on the horizon.
I suppose the other benefit for them in the medium term is that they can probably get away with offering 3.5-4% a'la RS rolling on this product, and improve their margins a bit.
Still, a funny time to do it IMV.
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Post by Matthew on Aug 7, 2019 11:37:56 GMT
The key characteristics of the Flexible Product are: (a) Your money will be invested in loans for terms from 2 months up to 5 years (b) You can sell your loans and withdraw cash with no early access fees, provided we can find new investors to purchase your loans (c) You will not be able to make any new lending offers for a period of 28 days after selling loans within this product Matthew , could you please clarify what happen to the accrued interest when you sell a loan part in the flexible and growth product? Hi benajAccrued interest in the Flexible product will be paid to the investor(s) purchasing your loan chunks on the next loan repayment. We may look at changing this in the future e.g. the incoming investor buys the chunks at a premium to account for this, but it's not currently in the roadmap. Accrued interest in the Growth product works slightly differently (although the same as the legacy products). The fee for selling loans is 0.5% of the amount sold, plus a discount to reflect any projected interest shortfall for the remainder of the loan terms, where the interest rates on your chunks are lower than the current market rates (as advertised on our website at the time). This is to prevent investors losing out by picking up loan chunks below the advertised rates. Where an interest shortfall is payable (to the incoming investor(s)), this is reduced to reflect any accrued interest at the point of sale. The reduction is capped at the amount of any interest shortfall. Brief example: Sell £1,000 of loans Pay 0.5% fee = £5.00 Discount of £2.50 to reflect interest shortfall (say the rate on your loans is 6.0% versus 6.5% current Growth rate) Accrued interest of £2.00 Total fee payable = £5.00 + £2.50 - £2.00 = £5.50 If accrued interest was instead £3.00: Total fee payable = £5.00 + £2.50 - £2.50 (capped at the interest shortfall value) = £5.00 Hope this helps, but any questions please let me know.
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Post by Matthew on Aug 7, 2019 11:45:23 GMT
Leaving aside the concerns I've raised already re: the PF, I'm a bit surprised they've moved in the direction of making lending more easy access. Although I can see how it'd be more appealing for some investors, I'd been half-expecting platforms such as this to move in the other direction to be honest. They'll now introduce the potential for a run on their funds, something I'd imagine other platforms are a bit nervy about with No-Deal Brexit possibly on the horizon. I suppose the other benefit for them in the medium term is that they can probably get away with offering 3.5-4% a'la RS rolling on this product, and improve their margins a bit. Still, a funny time to do it IMV. Hi r00lish67Just to provide some clarity on the reasons for the product change, these include: - Providing a more accessible option for new investors (minimum 3 year term with exit fees deterred many customers from getting started) - Removing term-based liquidity issues (the previous products restricted our lending on loans up to 3 years as the 3 year investment product was becoming significantly less-used than the 5 year product) In our opinion, there isn't really an increased risk of a 'run' with this product - if we are ever in a situation where investors are withdrawing on mass, due to some extraordinarily negative event, I'm not sure a 0.5% fee would prevent investors exiting. On a side note, a traditional bank run is technically not possible with 1-2-1 matched contracts i.e. it's slightly different to a bank not holding sufficient funds to satisfy withdrawal requests from depositors. Instead, P2P investors would simply be required to wait until loan repayments are made to draw down their investment. The obvious risk here though is in relation to new investments/reinvestments drying up, which would restrict new lending/damage revenue etc. Thanks
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zlb
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Post by zlb on Aug 7, 2019 12:18:54 GMT
Leaving aside the concerns I've raised already re: the PF, I'm a bit surprised they've moved in the direction of making lending more easy access. Although I can see how it'd be more appealing for some investors, I'd been half-expecting platforms such as this to move in the other direction to be honest. They'll now introduce the potential for a run on their funds, something I'd imagine other platforms are a bit nervy about with No-Deal Brexit possibly on the horizon. I suppose the other benefit for them in the medium term is that they can probably get away with offering 3.5-4% a'la RS rolling on this product, and improve their margins a bit. Still, a funny time to do it IMV. Hi r00lish67 Just to provide some clarity on the reasons for the product change, these include: - Providing a more accessible option for new investors (minimum 3 year term with exit fees deterred many customers from getting started) - Removing term-based liquidity issues (the previous products restricted our lending on loans up to 3 years as the 3 year investment product was becoming significantly less-used than the 5 year product) In our opinion, there isn't really an increased risk of a 'run' with this product - if we are ever in a situation where investors are withdrawing on mass, due to some extraordinarily negative event, I'm not sure a 0.5% fee would prevent investors exiting. On a side note, a traditional bank run is technically not possible with 1-2-1 matched contracts i.e. it's slightly different to a bank not holding sufficient funds to satisfy withdrawal requests from depositors. Instead, P2P investors would simply be required to wait until loan repayments are made to draw down their investment. The obvious risk here though is in relation to new investments/reinvestments drying up, which would restrict new lending/damage revenue etc. Thanks Hi Matthew, thank you for being an ongoing contributor to this forum, it's a good indicator. I'd just like to say that with a flexible product, surely people can withdraw immediately, as if it were cash. Even if 0.5% is a good sale fee, it would still require other/new investors to purchase loan parts, which, if there were some kind of flurry of anxiety and a 'run' on withdrawals, I'd imagine there many not be replacement lenders at that exact point in time. Do you have contingency for this event? It's been mentioned elsewhere that the PF has been used pretty quickly, in recent times, and this has made some investors concerned. What action will you be taking to put these ongoing concerns at rest? thanks.
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Post by Matthew on Aug 7, 2019 12:29:00 GMT
Hi r00lish67 Just to provide some clarity on the reasons for the product change, these include: - Providing a more accessible option for new investors (minimum 3 year term with exit fees deterred many customers from getting started) - Removing term-based liquidity issues (the previous products restricted our lending on loans up to 3 years as the 3 year investment product was becoming significantly less-used than the 5 year product) In our opinion, there isn't really an increased risk of a 'run' with this product - if we are ever in a situation where investors are withdrawing on mass, due to some extraordinarily negative event, I'm not sure a 0.5% fee would prevent investors exiting. On a side note, a traditional bank run is technically not possible with 1-2-1 matched contracts i.e. it's slightly different to a bank not holding sufficient funds to satisfy withdrawal requests from depositors. Instead, P2P investors would simply be required to wait until loan repayments are made to draw down their investment. The obvious risk here though is in relation to new investments/reinvestments drying up, which would restrict new lending/damage revenue etc. Thanks Hi Matthew , thank you for being an ongoing contributor to this forum, it's a good indicator. I'd just like to say that with a flexible product, surely people can withdraw immediately, as if it were cash. Even if 0.5% is a good sale fee, it would still require other/new investors to purchase loan parts, which, if there were some kind of flurry of anxiety and a 'run' on withdrawals, I'd imagine there many not be replacement lenders at that exact point in time. Do you have contingency for this event? It's been mentioned elsewhere that the PF has been used pretty quickly, in recent times, and this has made some investors concerned. What action will you be taking to put these ongoing concerns at rest? thanks. Hi zlbThanks for your post. With both products, Flexible and Growth, there is a requirement for investors to be available to purchase your loans. There is no mechanism for a buyback guarantee, so as with most investments of this nature, you should be prepared (in non BAU circumstances) for it to be longer term i.e. not instant access. If you absolutely need guaranteed access to your funds, then I would say P2P is probably not the right home, for that money at least. The Flexible product provides flexibility in that you can enter and exit your investment without penalty, in whatever timeframe suits you, but this as mentioned above is not guaranteed. We've never had a situation where a loan sale/withdrawal has taken longer than a day or so, but that's not to say it could never happen. Regarding the Shield/PF - probably best to review the other thread on this topic, but in high-level terms we are continuing to strengthen our risk, credit and underwriting teams, our credit modelling and de-risk strategies and are regularly reviewing Shield contributions, both from new loans and from the spread on the existing portfolio, to bring coverage levels into line with where our long term intentions are. As mentioned in the other Shield thread, the Shield is a fluid mechanism rather than a static one, so we will continue to manage coverage levels on an ongoing basis. Many thanks
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r00lish67
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Post by r00lish67 on Aug 7, 2019 12:46:04 GMT
Leaving aside the concerns I've raised already re: the PF, I'm a bit surprised they've moved in the direction of making lending more easy access. Although I can see how it'd be more appealing for some investors, I'd been half-expecting platforms such as this to move in the other direction to be honest. They'll now introduce the potential for a run on their funds, something I'd imagine other platforms are a bit nervy about with No-Deal Brexit possibly on the horizon. I suppose the other benefit for them in the medium term is that they can probably get away with offering 3.5-4% a'la RS rolling on this product, and improve their margins a bit. Still, a funny time to do it IMV. Hi r00lish67 Just to provide some clarity on the reasons for the product change, these include: - Providing a more accessible option for new investors (minimum 3 year term with exit fees deterred many customers from getting started) - Removing term-based liquidity issues (the previous products restricted our lending on loans up to 3 years as the 3 year investment product was becoming significantly less-used than the 5 year product) In our opinion, there isn't really an increased risk of a 'run' with this product - if we are ever in a situation where investors are withdrawing on mass, due to some extraordinarily negative event, I'm not sure a 0.5% fee would prevent investors exiting. On a side note, a traditional bank run is technically not possible with 1-2-1 matched contracts i.e. it's slightly different to a bank not holding sufficient funds to satisfy withdrawal requests from depositors. Instead, P2P investors would simply be required to wait until loan repayments are made to draw down their investment. The obvious risk here though is in relation to new investments/reinvestments drying up, which would restrict new lending/damage revenue etc. Thanks Ok, accept it wouldn't strictly be a run. Similar to zlb's point, it's more about investor expectation I suppose. Whilst from first glance your product literature makes it clear that flexible means 'fee-free' and not guaranteed, the danger I suppose is that regardless it attracts the 'nice place to park my house deposit' crowd. Point taken though. Thanks from me too for the continued engagement. I can't quite say I'm going to reinvest (only as I just don't feel convinced about the net position of the PF at the moment) but I do hope to be able to come back soon.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 2, 2019 18:01:54 GMT
First impression of testing out "Flexible":
1. Depending on the matching speed, not all the money are matched with the same repayment date. 2. 1/3 of my test money were matched with Quick Withdraw loan with interest shortfall received.
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