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Post by overthehill on Feb 7, 2023 10:25:04 GMT
This outcome is truly horrendous. I get that pubs have been having a hard time, but 3 of these 4 properties have crashed to 15 to 17% of their prior valuations!
Doesn't bode well for the myriad of other loans outstanding does it ?
It was blindingly obvious ablrate were untrustworthy after the notorious AF loan raise. If all his loans are not repayed then I see some big investors taking legal action.
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mah
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Post by mah on Feb 7, 2023 12:06:49 GMT
I see that we are given no breakdown for any of these loans of the "direct legal and professional costs and Ablrate fees", which I would expected to have seen. I know that in at least one case, a venue has traded for part of the period where the loan hasn't been serviced, but there is no explanation of what has happened to that money either. Does anyone have anymore wool to pull over my eyes? All along, AblRate have been saying that at least 105 was Trading fine and was Solvent :-(
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mah
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Post by mah on Feb 7, 2023 12:10:48 GMT
I remember when I was mocked by ablrate for my hypothesis that bids for some of the AF debt in a restructure could possibly surface at around 9p in the £ DBW: "bidding for the debt at, say, 9p in the pound..." Yeah - not going to happen. p2pindependentforum.com/post/454334/threadSince then, one of the AF companies has gone into a CVA with a settlement for most creditors forecast to be 5.5p in the £ And now we have a couple of boozers being sold at 15 & 17p in the £ Same here, when I raised queries re 085, which was much before Covid and they were saying that it was a sterling 'state of the Art niche' business.
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mah
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Post by mah on Feb 7, 2023 12:15:41 GMT
Ace I think the problem is more to do with their locations. The valuations were a joke. Based on the assumption of a comprehensive refit, a tenant paying over the odds rent and being tied in to buying their beer. No "as it stands" valuation. You might as well have asked for a valuation of the properties with £650k pound coins in the basement. These are run down pubs which closed some time ago due to not being profitable. One situated in the old engineering area of Darlington and the other in the previous coal mining area of Co Durham. Even the valuation assessed the locations as "secondary". What's even more of a joke is the valuation compared previous sales of a pub in the coastal village of West Kirby on the Wirral (they even spelt the name wrong) and the market town of Nantwich in Cheshire. I was not in this loan, however, it certainly looks very irresponsible to lend this amount of money in these circumstances. No staged payments, no progress checks despite the valuation being subject to completion of a refit. The valuation was and has proved to be a thing of fiction, purely to support a p2p loan. Then when things started to go off the rails, there was no checks to see how the refit was going, nor to see how the money had been spent. Instead Abl kicked the can down the road. And the Fin Ombudsman saw No Wrongdoings at all and painted them Whiter than White.
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brianlom1
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Post by brianlom1 on Feb 7, 2023 23:36:32 GMT
ablrate - This shambles raises serious questions about Ablrate's level of competence: First and foremost, where has the money gone? How much of the money loaned was used for the intended purpose of renovating the properties (presumably not much or the current valuations would be higher)? What financial controls were implemented to ensure funds could only be used for the intended purpose? Were staged payments made (based on achievement of stated objectives) or was the full amount given away upfront? In your opinion, has Ablrate been duped? Can investors expect a similarly disastrous outcome on other loans? Why was there radio silence for such a long period of time then, without prior warning, investors were informed that a deal had been concluded? If various options were investigated, why were details not shared with investors at the time? When will investors see a full breakdown of costs incurred in disposing of the assets? Who came up with the current valuations? To what extent did assumptions change from the original valuations to current? Who is the buyer? Are they linked in any way to Ablrate or associated companies (including previous borrowers)? What are the plans for development of the properties? Why were investors not consulted in advance (maybe someone would have liked to buy the properties at such a low price)? Why was the deal not put to a vote? Has Ablrate been totally honest with investors? For instance, was the secondary market closed because the FCA became aware loans were trading well above their realistic value?
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p2pfan
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Post by p2pfan on Feb 7, 2023 23:46:41 GMT
ablrate - This shambles raises serious questions about Ablrate's level of competence: First and foremost, where has the money gone? How much of the money loaned was used for the intended purpose of renovating the properties (presumably not much or the current valuations would be higher)? What financial controls were implemented to ensure funds could only be used for the intended purpose? Were staged payments made (based on achievement of stated objectives) or was the full amount given away upfront? In your opinion, has Ablrate been duped? Can investors expect a similarly disastrous outcome on other loans? Why was there radio silence for such a long period of time then, without prior warning, investors were informed that a deal had been concluded? If various options were investigated, why were details not shared with investors at the time? When will investors see a full breakdown of costs incurred in disposing of the assets? Who came up with the current valuations? To what extent did assumptions change from the original valuations to current? Who is the buyer? Are they linked in any way to Ablrate or associated companies (including previous borrowers)? What are the plans for development of the properties? Why were investors not consulted in advance (maybe someone would have liked to buy the properties at such a low price)? Why was the deal not put to a vote? Has Ablrate been totally honest with investors? For instance, was the secondary market closed because the FCA became aware loans were trading well above their realistic value? These are excellent questions. The concerns raised above by other lenders are very valid too. Only posting on a web forum will not reap any results. Ask the questions to Ablrate etc.
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brianlom1
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Post by brianlom1 on Feb 8, 2023 1:37:38 GMT
Thank you for the suggestion (which I will follow if no response is forthcoming from ablrate) but I felt the answers to these questions would be of interest to the wider forum.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Feb 8, 2023 11:19:30 GMT
I see lots of ablrate tagging going on, good luck getting a response. Unless I missed it, he vanished after being asked some very straight question regarding borrower links. I've already forecast where this is going, nothing has changed my mind. DBW wants this gone.
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markyg61
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Post by markyg61 on Feb 27, 2023 7:48:30 GMT
Why do I feel like I've been shafted on these pub loans ?? Something not right here !
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Balder
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Post by Balder on Feb 27, 2023 7:54:14 GMT
Just the pub loans!
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Post by casper on Feb 27, 2023 18:10:52 GMT
Disappointing. They really should be investigated, has ablrate been lying through their teeth all along? Where do I sign up for the class action?
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Mar 3, 2023 10:22:08 GMT
On the facebook page for the pub that was security for loan 97 "We’re closing after Sunday the 6th March for a much needed and anticipated refurbishment so we’re slashing our prices from today!!! Come and join us this weekend and help us drink the bar dry!!!" Worth noting that, as yet, there is no premises licence change application shown on the corresponding council's website maybe someone who uses Facebook could comment on there along the lines of Wow! Have you got new owners or something???A bit more on the DD thread Done.
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Post by stevem on Mar 6, 2023 15:25:50 GMT
This all sounds very dodgy
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jo
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Post by jo on Mar 6, 2023 15:42:10 GMT
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Mar 9, 2023 16:30:01 GMT
So what does this mean?
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