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Post by gaspilot on Oct 27, 2014 10:50:14 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures?
When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations.
Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors.
I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28
Where is the missing 22p?
Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70.
Where is the missing 7p?
Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short.
Is it just me that this is affecting?
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 27, 2014 10:55:33 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures? When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations. Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors. I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28 Where is the missing 22p? Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70. Where is the missing 7p? Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short. Is it just me that this is affecting? Has the system sold all of loan A & B? I take there isn't any remaining. OR Has the system bought some micro loans of a few pence somewhere? Have you checked your MLI a/c? What are the two loans by the way, can you give the loan No.s
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Post by Come_on_Grandad on Oct 27, 2014 11:12:39 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures? When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations. Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors. I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28 Where is the missing 22p? Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70. Where is the missing 7p? Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short. Is it just me that this is affecting? In the old system, each loan unit is amortized separately, so your displayed total shows you the sum of 26 identical rounding errors for loan A plus 11 identical rounding errors for loan B. In the new system, each loan is amortized as a single unit, giving you just 2 rounding error opportunities.
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Post by yorkshireman on Oct 27, 2014 11:15:29 GMT
All 3 account grand totals (including live and accepted bids) are down on the figures on the screen shots I took prior to the changes, the discrepancies are larger than what I would expect from rounding errors. I’ll give AC a little longer to see if they are corrected before taking it up with them.
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Post by gaspilot on Oct 27, 2014 11:26:06 GMT
For clarity:
I haven't sold any parts of loans A or B.
Also I don't see how any rounding errors could have occurred.
The reason I say this is because Loan A's capital was repaid at exactly £0.25 per £100 (= £6.50 for £2600)
Also Loan B was repaid at exactly £0.93 per £100 (=£10.23 for £1100).
So, in essence, there is no rounding up or down to be made.
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Post by Come_on_Grandad on Oct 27, 2014 12:09:45 GMT
For clarity: I haven't sold any parts of loans A or B. Also I don't see how any rounding errors could have occurred. The reason I say this is because Loan A's capital was repaid at exactly £0.25 per £100 (= £6.50 for £2600) Also Loan B was repaid at exactly £0.93 per £100 (=£10.23 for £1100). So, in essence, there is no rounding up or down to be made. Why do you believe that the principal repayments were exact pennies (£0.25 and £0.93)?
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 27, 2014 12:56:27 GMT
For clarity: I haven't sold any parts of loans A or B. Also I don't see how any rounding errors could have occurred. The reason I say this is because Loan A's capital was repaid at exactly £0.25 per £100 (= £6.50 for £2600) Also Loan B was repaid at exactly £0.93 per £100 (=£10.23 for £1100). So, in essence, there is no rounding up or down to be made. Why do you believe that the principal repayments were exact pennies (£0.25 and £0.93)? the web site shows exact figure, but download a csv of your statement from here: www.assetzcapital.co.uk/investments/product-statement/view/1 and work with these figures it might help, it might not.
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Post by gaspilot on Oct 27, 2014 13:51:09 GMT
Okay
I've looked at the figures from the exported CSV.
The exact repayments were:
Loan A £2.08 + £2.34 +£2.08 = £6.50 exactly
Loan B £5.06 + £5.18439 = £10.24439 (??)
I'm still confused
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sqh
Member of DD Central
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Post by sqh on Oct 27, 2014 14:27:34 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures? When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations. Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors. I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28 Where is the missing 22p? Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70. Where is the missing 7p? Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short. Is it just me that this is affecting? It's a good question and one I raised on a different thread 2 days ago. My guess it this. When the software switched over amortizing loans had discrepancies of a few pence. The loans with discrepancies to the upside got redistributed as shrapnel to lenders who had AI targets above their holding. The loans with discrepancies to the downside you will detect as a few pence short in your holding, until another lender decides to sell some and your Mini Loanpart Implusive Accumulator then buys them back. Of course that raises the ethical question of who are losers and who are winners? I've decided the amounts are too small to worry about.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Oct 27, 2014 14:50:29 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures? When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations. Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors. I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28 Where is the missing 22p? Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70. Where is the missing 7p? Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short. Is it just me that this is affecting? It's a good question and one I raised on a different thread 2 days ago. My guess it this. When the software switched over amortizing loans had discrepancies of a few pence. The loans with discrepancies to the upside got redistributed as shrapnel to lenders who had AI targets above their holding. The loans with discrepancies to the downside you will detect as a few pence short in your holding, until another lender decides to sell some and your Mini Loanpart Implusive Accumulator then buys them back. Of course that raises the ethical question of who are losers and who are winners? I've decided the amounts are too small to worry about. 's error seems to be in proportion to the size of his holding, so sqh is your error of a similar nature?
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Post by chris on Oct 27, 2014 14:53:51 GMT
Is anybody else experiencing errors in their figures? When the new website went live their appeared to be an error of 28p in the calculations. Not much I agree but an irritation none the less. I believe I have tracked down the errors. I have two loans. Loan A: 26 x £100 = £2600 repaid £6.50 therefore I should have £2593.50 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £2593.28 Where is the missing 22p? Similarly Loan B: 11 x£100 =£1100 repaid £10.23 therefore I should have £1089.77 in 'Your Holding'. The actual figure is £1089.70. Where is the missing 7p? Put together these add up to the 28p (29p actually but I can figure that rounding error) that I am short. Is it just me that this is affecting? The site doesn't pay back whole pence of principal any more, nor did the old site really but it was disguised due to the need to display whole pennies on a per loan unit basis. What used to happen was that each month on a per loan unit basis the principal repayment was rounded down to the penny with the balance held on account. The next month that fraction of a penny that was left over would be taken into account and once a whole penny was available it would be added on. So you'd end up with repayments like 50p, 50p, 51p, 50p... over a four month period. This leads to a rounding error of 1p per £100 invested (or part of) on the old site. The principal remaining was therefore always rounded up a penny, as the amount repaid was rounded down, even though you were actually only earning interest on the correct fraction of a penny. On the new site you'll actually be paid 50.27p, 50.27p, 50.27p, 50.27p but also all your loan units are rolled up into one per loan (per method of investment per interest rate). So the month by month repayments will always correctly reflect your holdings. In addition your principal is now rounded up to the penny on a whole loan basis. Over the course of the loan the amounts repaid will be roughly the same - a fraction of a penny higher on the new site - but you'll have more of your funds available throughout the lifetime of the loan. There's one complication to this though which are the two historical reverse auctions that have different interest rates for their loan units. On the old platform these loans were repaying their principal at the wrong rate, with some lenders winning others losing out. The new platform has corrected this so the principal amount shown follows the correct curve and reflects the amount that will be repaid and is earning interest. I believe the overall repayments were correct and it was just the misallocation of funds between interest and principal which caused the issue, so the amount received by lenders was correct but the principal remaining amounts were incorrect. However rather than try and forensically investigate this I've recommended to the business that for those that lost out we simply refund the difference as it's only a small amount across those loans. This is awaiting sign off before it's implemented.
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Post by Come_on_Grandad on Oct 27, 2014 14:59:43 GMT
Okay I've looked at the figures from the exported CSV. The exact repayments were: Loan A £2.08 + £2.34 +£2.08 = £6.50 exactly Loan B £5.06 + £5.18439 = £10.24439 (??) I'm still confused I don't know which loans you are talking about ... but here, for example, is what would happen to a £100 loan unit in auction id 92 which is a 10 year amortization with a borrowers rate of 15%, shown to 8 decimal places First repayment of principal is £0.36334957, your capital on loan reduces to £99.63665043 Second repayment of principal is £0.36789144, your capital on loan reduces to £99.26875899 Third repayment of principal is £0.37249008, your capital on loan reduces to £98.89626891 Exact whole numbers of pennies are just not going to happen!! You should now please verify that these numbers agree with AC loan display for auction id 92. Initial loan amount was £100,000 so amount remaining on loan after three payments s/be £98896.26891. In the repayment tab, the first payment should have £363.34957 shown against Lender Principal. Exact whole numbers of pennies are just not going to happen. Hence your statement and webpage displays always contain unavoidable rounding errors. Behind the scenes adjustments are made to these, month on month, because the calculations are held to an inordinate number of decimal places. But in the old system, the money displayed to you as your investment was affected by the sum of 26 rounding errors in loan A and 11 in loan B. In the new system, each month there is only 1 rounding error in loan A and 1 in loan B. This is why people saw shrapnel being bought and sold when the new system was implemented. Their target, imported from the old system, was a few pennies out compared to their holding as computed in the new system due to these rounding errors. Hope that helps!
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sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
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Post by sqh on Oct 27, 2014 15:13:55 GMT
It's a good question and one I raised on a different thread 2 days ago. My guess it this. When the software switched over amortizing loans had discrepancies of a few pence. The loans with discrepancies to the upside got redistributed as shrapnel to lenders who had AI targets above their holding. The loans with discrepancies to the downside you will detect as a few pence short in your holding, until another lender decides to sell some and your Mini Loanpart Implusive Accumulator then buys them back. Of course that raises the ethical question of who are losers and who are winners? I've decided the amounts are too small to worry about. 's error seems to be in proportion to the size of his holding, so sqh is your error of a similar nature? The error will be dependent on the size of the rounding discrepancy of any particular loan and then amplified by your holding. For example, I have £994.90 of loan #39 (that was originally 10x £100 units which amortised to 10 x £99.49 units). With the new software I have only £994.85, that's 0.5p short per unit. If I owned 50x £100 units then I would be down 50x 0.5p = 25p. Edit: the downside discrepancy rate per £100 unit for loan#81 was 0.08p, loan#24 was 0.48p, loan#89 was 0.86p. (according to my calculations).
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Post by gaspilot on Oct 27, 2014 16:23:04 GMT
I use Excel to log my figures.
I think as the amounts are small I'll just categorise them as rounding errors for simplicity.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 28, 2014 4:25:20 GMT
There's one complication to this though which are the two historical reverse auctions that have different interest rates for their loan units. I know that one of those unusual auctions was #40 (K*** P***). Does anyone know which the other one was?
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