sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 27, 2014 15:10:32 GMT
As a general principle, which is more important - the legal agreement embodied in the site T&Cs, or the technical implementation of what the site does? I scanned through the T&Cs as they now stand and noticed a number of potentially significant differences between how the site works and how the T&Cs say it works. Much as it is great to see Assetz innovating, it seems to me that the T&Cs are not being kept in sync with the technical changes, suggesting a lack of communication between the technical and legal teams when interpreting instructions about what the site should do, or perhaps more worryingly that changes could have been made without even considering the legal implications. Where the T&Cs differ from what the site actually does, can the disadvantaged party (if applicable) enforce the T&Cs in preference to the current implementation of the site? If so, would it be up to Assetz to make good on the difference, or the counterparty who may have taken the actual implementation of the site as their reference for their own expectations? |
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sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
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Post by sl75 on Oct 27, 2014 15:34:58 GMT
Just as a glaringly obvious example, I note that the T&Cs provide a legal definition of "Loan Unit" as "In relation to each Loan, the base lending unit specified on the Website, being a sub-division of a Loan in an amount of not less than £20."
The £20 minimum was, for whatever reason, hard-coded into the legal agreement within the definitions section of the T&Cs.
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Post by chris on Oct 27, 2014 16:09:25 GMT
Just as a glaringly obvious example, I note that the T&Cs provide a legal definition of "Loan Unit" as "In relation to each Loan, the base lending unit specified on the Website, being a sub-division of a Loan in an amount of not less than £20." The £20 minimum was, for whatever reason, hard-coded into the legal agreement within the definitions section of the T&Cs. The two are being updated in parallel, this is clearly one that has been missed. I'll inform our general counsel.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 27, 2014 18:29:41 GMT
Just as a glaringly obvious example, I note that the T&Cs provide a legal definition of "Loan Unit" as "In relation to each Loan, the base lending unit specified on the Website, being a sub-division of a Loan in an amount of not less than £20." The £20 minimum was, for whatever reason, hard-coded into the legal agreement within the definitions section of the T&Cs. The two are being updated in parallel, this is clearly one that has been missed. I'll inform our general counsel. , andrewholgate: I presume everyone will be sent an email when the Ts&Cs are updated. Can I please request that the email gives the details of all the changes rather than simply distributing the new Ts&Cs and making everyone who wants to know what's changed go through both the old and the new and play 'Spot The Difference'?
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Post by chris on Oct 27, 2014 20:16:21 GMT
The two are being updated in parallel, this is clearly one that has been missed. I'll inform our general counsel. , andrewholgate: I presume everyone will be sent an email when the Ts&Cs are updated. Can I please request that the email gives the details of all the changes rather than simply distributing the new Ts&Cs and making everyone who wants to know what's changed go through both the old and the new and play 'Spot The Difference'? I believe the Ts and Cs spell out our duty to notify you. When the green accounts launch there'll be a change to support them that will be flagged on the site. Beyond that changes that are not to the detriment to lenders, such as revising the minimum loan unit size downwards, would not need to be flagged and I'd also be surprised if something like that were emailed round. If there's anything detrimental or substantive then this would be emailed. I have forwarded your post to the exec so they can incorporate it into their communication plans.
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mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
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Post by mikes1531 on Oct 27, 2014 23:55:49 GMT
chris, andrewholgate: I presume everyone will be sent an email when the Ts&Cs are updated. Can I please request that the email gives the details of all the changes rather than simply distributing the new Ts&Cs and making everyone who wants to know what's changed go through both the old and the new and play 'Spot The Difference'? I believe the Ts and Cs spell out our duty to notify you. : The Ts&Cs do set out the requirements. But those are the minimum requirements, and they truly are minimal. My interpretation of them is... - AC "may amend these Terms from time to time as they think fit."
- If detrimental, AC "will endeavour to provide 30 days notice before any changes take effect." [The notice clearly is not a requirement.]
- "Any such notice shall be posted on the Website." [There's no requirement to bring them to anyone's attention. Burying the notice on the Ts&Cs page -- to which there does not seem to be a direct link at the bottom of the website pages (I found them only via the link that I found there to the Site Map) -- would be sufficient.]
- "By continuing to use the Website, each Lending Member agrees to be bound by the amended Terms." [So I could be deemed to have agreed to any changes without even being aware that changes had been made.]
But there's nothing in the Ts&Cs that would stop AC from doing a better job than absolutely required. I would like to think that AC would want to be seen to be communicating better than the minimum required by the Ts&Cs. PS. I trust that all the Ts&Cs relating to bidding are being deleted.
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Post by chris on Oct 28, 2014 6:19:59 GMT
I believe the Ts and Cs spell out our duty to notify you. : The Ts&Cs do set out the requirements. But those are the minimum requirements, and they truly are minimal. My interpretation of them is... - AC "may amend these Terms from time to time as they think fit."
- If detrimental, AC "will endeavour to provide 30 days notice before any changes take effect." [The notice clearly is not a requirement.]
- "Any such notice shall be posted on the Website." [There's no requirement to bring them to anyone's attention. Burying the notice on the Ts&Cs page -- to which there does not seem to be a direct link at the bottom of the website pages (I found them only via the link that I found there to the Site Map) -- would be sufficient.]
- "By continuing to use the Website, each Lending Member agrees to be bound by the amended Terms." [So I could be deemed to have agreed to any changes without even being aware that changes had been made.]
But there's nothing in the Ts&Cs that would stop AC from doing a better job than absolutely required. I would like to think that AC would want to be seen to be communicating better than the minimum required by the Ts&Cs. PS. I trust that all the Ts&Cs relating to bidding are being deleted. I'd like to think so too. Yes the Ts&Cs relating to bidding are being removed as part of the Green account update.
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