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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 16, 2014 23:08:07 GMT
.... I generally concentrate on businesses that are seeking capital deepening finance rather than capital widening finance ... : would you mind expanding - if that doesn't fall foul of the relevant filter :-) - on what you mean by deepening vs widening i.e. what would be examples of deepening (removing factoring facilities ?) as opposed to 'widening' ?
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Post by loanstar on Nov 16, 2014 23:32:50 GMT
625 businesses 35 comments 8 downgrades
Like many, at the first comment I sell. I agree some of the comments are just stock phases. My longest and most engaging relates to some drinking water.
From time to time when FC invite comment I make remarks about treating investors like mushrooms.
I do have a couple of downgraded that are still being services. It is a pity that they cannot be sold at any sort of discount. Why should there not be a market
in downgraded loans say at a 20% to 50% discount.
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baz657
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Post by baz657 on Nov 17, 2014 0:49:32 GMT
207 businesses There are comments for six loans and three of the comments relate to late acceptance i.e.
Why do I need to know that four months down the line? One of the six is downgraded (as the borrower is due to settle the loan in its entirety).
I don't tend to spend as much time on FC as I used to, and therefore not invested as much as I thought I would because I've found that the return for time invested is (for me) well below say AC (even with recent problems), RS and, to a lesser extent, Wellesley.
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dorset
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Post by dorset on Nov 17, 2014 17:25:40 GMT
.... I generally concentrate on businesses that are seeking capital deepening finance rather than capital widening finance ... : would you mind expanding - if that doesn't fall foul of the relevant filter :-) - on what you mean by deepening vs widening i.e. what would be examples of deepening (removing factoring facilities ?) as opposed to 'widening' ? No, using a loan to reduce factoring would be simply rebalancing the sources of finance.
Capital investment deepening through to widening is a continuum. At one extreme (deepening) would be say using a £100k loan to buy a machine to replace an older machine and which would reduce the cost of each widget produced by 20%. At the other extreme (widening) would be a CEO who says lets invest £100k to launch our widget into the US market. In general the former tends to be lower risk investing than the latter which tends to be higher risk.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 17, 2014 23:42:12 GMT
Your scheme looks good to me, Dorset. You seem to be a buy and hold lender and therefore put your time into initial selection and then let the loans run, presumably considering that since we are flying blind after purchase, 36 months might be a good limit to put on the time flying blind. Your average loan length will be shorter. Combined with disposing of the ex-lates and ex-RBRs, easily detected, that would probably give a return considerably better than the average. I prefer to buy fewer loans and trade and churn to boost return and reduce losses. My losses over 27 months are less than 0.5% per annum, but much of that is due to good fortune with recoveries, and I am certainly taking higher risks from the consequences of a default than you are - but hopefully balanced by the non-taxable cashbacks and premia.
One of the attractive features of FC is the number of ways of 'playing the game'.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 18, 2014 9:18:13 GMT
... I do have a couple of downgraded that are still being services. It is a pity that they cannot be sold at any sort of discount. Why should there not be a market in downgraded loans say at a 20% to 50% discount. Very, very, very much agree that there should be a free market in downgraded and defaulted loan parts among consenting self-certified adults, or to professional FC-approved debt factors. There are people who will wish to sell their portfolios completely when they need the cash, and people who will be prepared to purchase with a longer view. Maybe FC's mind will be focussed by the need to be able to sell an ISA and transfer - rather than having to hold on to small parts for five years or more. Some people's ladies jeans will be well worn out before they are free of the generous gift-giver. All the time lenders sit with these cases, prevented from any escape, it can sour an otherwise good relationship with FC. I know that I am cross about 4907, late most months, and I am reminded that the fault lay between FC and the borrower, yet the lenders are trapped for three years. Bad psychology, FC.
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is
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Post by is on Nov 18, 2014 10:02:10 GMT
... I do have a couple of downgraded that are still being services. It is a pity that they cannot be sold at any sort of discount. Why should there not be a market in downgraded loans say at a 20% to 50% discount. Very, very, very much agree that there should be a free market in downgraded and defaulted loan parts among consenting self-certified adults, or to professional FC-approved debt factors. There are people who will wish to sell their portfolios completely when they need the cash, and people who will be prepared to purchase with a longer view. Maybe FC's mind will be focussed by the need to be able to sell an ISA and transfer - rather than having to hold on to small parts for five years or more. Some people's ladies jeans will be well worn out before they are free of the generous gift-giver. All the time lenders sit with these cases, prevented from any escape, it can sour an otherwise good relationship with FC. I know that I am cross about 4907, late most months, and I am reminded that the fault lay between FC and the borrower, yet the lenders are trapped for three years. Bad psychology, FC. I'd happily buy impaired loans at the right level of return, like I do on AC (but then that platform does not allow markup/markdown, so also has problems). Also FC does not pass on any form of default interest to lenders, which it no doubt charges the borrowers. In general I would prefer a free market in both performing and non-performing loans without +-3% limits (and would happily take 4907 off your hands @85 or so  )
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 18, 2014 16:07:06 GMT
I'd happily buy impaired loans at the right level of return, like I do on AC (but then that platform does not allow markup/markdown, so also has problems). Also FC does not pass on any form of default interest to lenders, which it no doubt charges the borrowers. In general I would prefer a free market in both performing and non-performing loans without +-3% limits (and would happily take 4907 off your hands @85 or so ) You can have some of mine for less than that!! But in general yes, it would be nice to have some clean exit mechanism for ancient cr&p, even if it was only some way to transfer them to "the FC charitable trust" who could use all the odd pennies which might trickle in over the next few years for good purposes.
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 18, 2014 16:23:54 GMT
4907 is not ancient cr&p and FC seem to think the guarantor (parent company?) will make all 36. But that is too long for me. If @85 means 85p in the pound outstanding then there would be a basis for discussion because I would be (hypothetically) pleased to sell at 90. I don't know what GSV has been doing with his parts because they are clearly not as good as mine. [Aside: Perhaps GSV is allowing for the South W*l*s location.]
If FC allowed us to sell to IS through the platform we would all be happy, rather than grumpy.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Nov 18, 2014 18:22:19 GMT
4907 isn't, but I have plenty which are, with no way to clean them up.
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Post by loanstar on Nov 18, 2014 19:29:37 GMT
The problem is that once loans have been downgraded they become invisible to all but those who own them. Is there any way the details can be extracted from the loan book? Or would we have to start a 3rd market of some sort. FC if you are reading any of this there is some chance of more commission here, and a development which investors are asking for.
Anyone want to start listing details? loan number outstanding amount, opening offer?
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Post by gingergent on Nov 18, 2014 19:44:42 GMT
FC does not pass on any form of default interest to lenders, which it no doubt charges the borrowers. What's not clear to me is how they handle all interest when the loan runs beyond the original maturity. At least one of my late loans is recovering so slowly I doubt it's paying back than it's accruing; either FC aren't correctly considering that I lent at a rate, rather than bought a series of cashflows, or else they really should be thinking carefully about what's in the everyone's long-term interests in these situations. I hope they're on the same page as I am and we never need to have that discussion, but it's moot for now.
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Post by valerieb on Nov 19, 2014 12:22:06 GMT
Hey, who was offering me jeans? I need them; mine are plastered in clay. I can swop for a couple of unused trumpets that could be melted down for profit......
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Nov 19, 2014 12:30:51 GMT
Hey, who was offering me jeans? I need them; mine are plastered in clay. I can swop for a couple of unused trumpets that could be melted down for profit......Invest in a breath of fresh air then blow them!!! Give us a tune, Val, before you scrap the cr*p!!
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blender
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Post by blender on Nov 19, 2014 12:59:08 GMT
Hey, who was offering me jeans? I need them; mine are plastered in clay. I can swop for a couple of unused trumpets that could be melted down for profit......Invest in a breath of fresh air then blow them!!! Give us a tune, Val, before you scrap the cr*p!! I will be careful about what I say about those three fine companies/people - for fear of hearing from some top-tier professionals. Edit: Valerie, I could put you in touch with someone who has a warehouse full of £2 million worth of designer jeans.
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