benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 9, 2019 9:34:21 GMT
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 9, 2019 13:26:50 GMT
On the page you linked, you can get details of the repaid loans from "rolling" (recently renamed "access"), and the equivalent links for other markets you may have participated in.
The page is set up to only show you loans that were repaid in a specific month you select, so if you want "all of them", you'd need to go through every month from the month you started lending, and collate the results as appropriate.
For products where you still have active loans, the equivalent links will be accessible in the same way on the main account page.
For products where you no longer have any active loans, the equivalent link can be easily guessed - e.g. if you had any 3 year loans, you'll find the details at members.ratesetter.com/your_lending/money_on_loan/repaid_lending.aspx?pid=2 (in terms of product IDs, RateSetter have so far had 6 products: 1 = "1 month" / "rolling" / "access", 2 = "3 year", 3 = "1 year", 4 = "5 year", 5 = "plus", 6 = "max")
In short, the records exist, but persuading the site to give all of them to you may be more trouble than it's worth.
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 9, 2019 15:29:55 GMT
Sadly the famous quote by Donald Rumsfeld in the last George Bush administration springs to mind here... Sadly RS doesn't seem to have realised that unless we are informed of the closure how can we know what month it has occured!
If you have your email notifications set there should be one that notifies you when a loan closes early. In Mrs Aju email she has a couple that seem to have subjects that state ...
"Notice: Your investment completed early"
I'm not sure if this helps with a loan that closes when its actually finished but she has 2 of these early closures over the last 11 months or so we have been with RS. You could search your emails for this text assuming you have your emails on this may well give you the loan that closed and more importantly the month.
I checked Mrs Aju's email setting in her "Contact Preferences" and there does seem to be a lot less options that I remember from when we first joined but she has everything set to contact her by email. Perhaps this is a default setting now as long as email as a contact method is set.
Not much help I know but hopefully you have received an email that gives you the date to use in the repaid loans report.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 9, 2019 15:36:17 GMT
Thanks sl75 , the lendertransactions.csv is probably the only toy RS provides. However, it is limited to 5000 entries, not really good enough for my case. My transactions in September is already over 3700+ entries, it will be time consuming to download all the data I need. I will probably have to spend lots of time in order to track cumulative capital and interest repayment for each individual contract !!!!
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 9, 2019 16:11:00 GMT
Bottom line, lendertranscations.csv is not a loanbook, does not have all the data I need. Is there a way to find out the original amount lent / start date / redemption date / term / interest rate / outstanding capital / outstanding interest / capital repaid / interest repaid for each individual contract? It's a bit annoying I can't find any record of the loans I sold via RYI in repaid_lending and I have to dig in transaction records. The transaction record does not hold data about the original amount lent, instead only order numbers can be found and it is almost impossible to guess the original amount lent for the loans receiving repayment. Although those loan repaid in full / completed early can be found under repaid_lending, but there's no single place to keep track all of them nor even a downloadable .csv members.ratesetter.com/your_lending/money_on_loan/repaid_lending.aspx?pid=x
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 9, 2019 16:44:14 GMT
Bottom line, lendertranscations.csv is not a loanbook, does not have all the data I need. Is there a way to find out the original amount lent / start date / redemption date / term / interest rate / outstanding capital / outstanding interest / capital repaid / interest repaid for each individual contract? It's a bit annoying I can't find any record of the loans I sold via RYI in repaid_lending and I have to dig in transaction records. The transaction record does not hold data about the original amount lent, instead only order numbers can be found and it is almost impossible to guess the original amount lent for the loans receiving repayment. Although those loan repaid in full / completed early can be found under repaid_lending, but there's no single place to keep track all of them nor even a downloadable .csv members.ratesetter.com/your_lending/money_on_loan/repaid_lending.aspx?pid=xPerhaps your best bet is to throw this one at RS as it sounds like they are probably not complying with FSCS guidelines, assuming these items you want are part of the rules and one cannot relocate them all. I cannot for the life of me see that these are not perfectly valid questions that I would probably ask if I was to stay with RS long enough. Do you not get emails when a loan closes can you not see the info you need in the clearly substandard "Repaid Loan" section of Loan if you can isolate the closed date of loans it does show details of each product closed - I think we can only see one per month at the moment. Mind you if you no longer have the product does that mean you can no longer see this loans detail anyway. The more I think about your question the more I'm coming out in a cold sweat and worse I realise how spoilt I am with Zopa data available to lenders should they wish to access it - albeit somewhat slowly these days . On lender transactions I cannot see that 3700+ records would take that long to download it might take a long while to create in the screen but a quick tab to bottom of the resultant screen would not be that slow. That said it will not have everything you are looking for as you say. I download my whole statements from Zopa but they are monthlies that I have to shoehorn together using DOS merge before loading into Excel - I have over a million records in my Invest product. In fact across our 4 accounts we have over 2m records and that's before we load up the loanbook data. That said I can reproduce all the statements data for a given loan and see where there are issues Zopa no longer provides this detail on their loanbook screens. On RS I cannot see I would need this kind of granularity but to be fair apart from some info you have mentioned that I also will need down the line the lender transactions does give me the ability to recreate the payments data and also see when a loan stopped and with that I can see both repayments and interest on both a record basis but also on a monthly totals basis too (a bit like Zopa's monthly statements screens). Still not what you want now and I will want down the line I grant you. Good probing question you have thrown up perhaps you should add it to the Ratesetter meeting thread as it does look likely <8 people are attending that one.
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sl75
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Post by sl75 on Oct 10, 2019 8:28:22 GMT
For my own purposes, the only relevant loans are the ones where I'm still owed money, which are just as easily located via links to each market on the main page, e.g. landing at
I almost never look at the repaid loans (other than soon after they were repaid to satisfy my curiousity and/or remind myself of the history of the recently-repaid loans), and certainly can't think of any use for the information about loans that were repaid over a year ago, although I know I can easily get to it if ever I did want to know more, analyse a sample of them further, or even [set up an automated system to] trawl through all of the historic records.
What decision are you trying to make that would be informed by analysing all the other data, or what high-level question are you trying to answer by this analysis? Is there perhaps a more specific question you could ask RateSetter to answer that would assist with the same decision? Would the overall loanbook statistics at www.ratesetter.com/invest/statistics assist with the same decision?
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 10, 2019 13:22:59 GMT
The truth is, the provision fund has blinded me judgement about RS. I did not care that much when I started lending on RS. Without provision of the loanbook data, it is hard to check loans sold via RYI. For loans redeemed normal or completed early, at least RS stores info which can be traced in Loan Contract Details, members.ratesetter.com/your_lending/money_on_loan/contract_details.aspx?Id=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxThat's no such thing for loans sold on RYI. It is a hard job to check whether if interest payment missing / paid incorrectly when no info available. For example, one of my 6.4% loan repaid early, the repayment schedule found in the contract details. I checked this contract, I found XIRR is 6.26% instead of 6.4%04/10/2018 10.01 15/10/2018 -0.18 15/11/2018 -0.23 17/12/2018 -0.22 15/01/2019 -0.23 15/02/2019 -0.21 15/03/2019 -0.23 15/04/2019 -0.22 15/05/2019 -0.22 17/06/2019 -0.22 15/07/2019 -0.22 15/08/2019 -0.22 16/09/2019 -0.23 23/09/2019 -7.91 Probably not worth it for pennies, but when large amount of contracts are sold, the difference could be ££.
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 10, 2019 14:11:34 GMT
The truth is, the provision fund has blinded me judgement about RS. I did not care that much when I started lending on RS. Without provision of the loanbook data, it is hard to check loans sold via RYI. For loans redeemed normal or completed early, at least RS stores info which can be traced in Loan Contract Details, members.ratesetter.com/your_lending/money_on_loan/contract_details.aspx?Id=xxxxxxxxxxxxxxThat's no such thing for loans sold on RYI. It is a hard job to check whether if interest payment missing / paid incorrectly when no info available. For example, one of my 6.4% loan repaid early, the repayment schedule found in the contract details. I checked this contract, I found XIRR is 6.26% instead of 6.4%04/10/2018 10.01 15/10/2018 -0.18 15/11/2018 -0.23 17/12/2018 -0.22 15/01/2019 -0.23 15/02/2019 -0.21 15/03/2019 -0.23 15/04/2019 -0.22 15/05/2019 -0.22 17/06/2019 -0.22 15/07/2019 -0.22 15/08/2019 -0.22 16/09/2019 -0.23 23/09/2019 -7.91 Probably not worth it for pennies, but when large amount of contracts are sold, the difference could be ££. Yes I agree there I have noticed similar discrepancies in Zopa too I guess one has to be slightly careful in that contract start date and the loan start dates rarely align and the sold date is not in alignment on a full month - the other factor is that you only had the loan for 12 months or so I would have expected the discrepancy to have been in your favour rather than not as the nature of the each loan paying down period also affects the true rate early in the cycle relative to the end. All that said, apart from heavily documented excel anomalies, XIRR should be spot on I would have thought but I suspect that the onscreen rate we are offered at is not bound by XIRR functions. On a large size loan though would not .14% be quite a large discrepancy. I'm sure one of the financial wizards will be along to suggest that we are delving in too much detail and misconstruing the true rate definition or better still will have an answer for why these differences occur. Edit: Not sure if RS has the same effect but in Zopa when one sells a Loan then the interest from the start of the month to the sale date is actually not credited to the selling lender but rather passed on the buyer of the loan. (It might be from the payment date to the sale date I can't remember how it works I just know its an anomaly I picked up on a while back.)
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Stonk
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Post by Stonk on Oct 10, 2019 14:33:30 GMT
For example, one of my 6.4% loan repaid early, the repayment schedule found in the contract details. I checked this contract, I found XIRR is 6.26% instead of 6.4%04/10/2018 10.01 15/10/2018 -0.18 15/11/2018 -0.23 17/12/2018 -0.22 15/01/2019 -0.23 15/02/2019 -0.21 15/03/2019 -0.23 15/04/2019 -0.22 15/05/2019 -0.22 17/06/2019 -0.22 15/07/2019 -0.22 15/08/2019 -0.22 16/09/2019 -0.23 23/09/2019 -7.91 Probably not worth it for pennies, but when large amount of contracts are sold, the difference could be ££.
Is this possibly because of compounding?
6.4% anually is equivalent to 6.22% monthly (to which 6.26% is close enough to be rounding errors). I think you would expect to receive the monthly rate because you are indeed being paid monthly. The idea is that if you can reinvest the payments back at 6.22%, and after a year the compounded rate will amount to 6.4%.
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 10, 2019 14:45:35 GMT
Looking at it more closely and playing with the numbers a little I'm convinced its the last period interest loss that goes to the buyer effect. Hopefully someone will be along to confirm or challenge that. It's definitely what happens on Zopa when I sold out and queried this alleged discrepancy. Edit1: Stonk you may be right, perhaps someone more closely connected to these things might offer an explanation. Edit2: I'm not sure though as I think amortizing is not the same as compounding is it since the interest payment is reducing all the while rather than compounding. The interest and the capital payment will be relent into another loan. Perhaps I'm more confused now - I think!
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Oct 10, 2019 15:10:35 GMT
For example, one of my 6.4% loan repaid early, the repayment schedule found in the contract details. I checked this contract, I found XIRR is 6.26% instead of 6.4%04/10/2018 10.01 15/10/2018 -0.18 15/11/2018 -0.23 17/12/2018 -0.22 15/01/2019 -0.23 15/02/2019 -0.21 15/03/2019 -0.23 15/04/2019 -0.22 15/05/2019 -0.22 17/06/2019 -0.22 15/07/2019 -0.22 15/08/2019 -0.22 16/09/2019 -0.23 23/09/2019 -7.91 Probably not worth it for pennies, but when large amount of contracts are sold, the difference could be ££.
Is this possibly because of compounding?
6.4% anually is equivalent to 6.22% monthly (to which 6.26% is close enough to be rounding errors). I think you would expect to receive the monthly rate because you are indeed being paid monthly. The idea is that if you can reinvest the payments back at 6.22%, and after a year the compounded rate will amount to 6.4%.
I recheck the numbers, if the borrower repaid on the 16th Sep, XIRR would be 6.37%, close enough to 6.4%. If final repayment is £7.92, XIRR would have been 6.37% as well. I guess RS rounded down 1p, unpaid interest would have been very close to 1p for 7 days of interest.
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Post by propman on Oct 10, 2019 15:22:06 GMT
Haven't challenged their approach, but RS changed the way their interest was calculated. Unlike Zopa they never used to account for sub penny amounts, so the interest was never more than 0.01 out in a month, but the rounding errors could mount up. In the extreme, I had a 5 year loan that never paid any interest as the monthly interest due was always less than a penny! However I did have some that paid more than the requested AER, so let it go.
Edit: just checked and rounding the interest due for each payment date accounts for the discrepancy.
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aju
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Post by aju on Oct 10, 2019 15:30:16 GMT
Is this possibly because of compounding?
6.4% anually is equivalent to 6.22% monthly (to which 6.26% is close enough to be rounding errors). I think you would expect to receive the monthly rate because you are indeed being paid monthly. The idea is that if you can reinvest the payments back at 6.22%, and after a year the compounded rate will amount to 6.4%.
I recheck the numbers, if the borrower repaid on the 16th Sep, XIRR would be 6.37%, close enough to 6.4%. If final repayment is £7.92, XIRR would have been 6.37% as well. I guess RS rounded down 1p, unpaid interest would have been very close to 1p for 7 days of interest. I think the numbers you have shown i.e. 2dp are definitely rounded from maybe 5/6 dp. In Zopa they are shown much more accurately. That said the rounding up and down would be minimal I would have thought even using 2dp rather than 5 or even 6 dp. Of course on a much larger loan, I have one 4 figure one, that would perhaps have a bigger effect although its the same level of rounding so I'm not sure. I made the 7 days come to .22*12/365*7 = 5p ( I guessed the average monthly rate was about .22p looking at your numbers)
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Post by propman on Oct 10, 2019 16:13:21 GMT
I recheck the numbers, if the borrower repaid on the 16th Sep, XIRR would be 6.37%, close enough to 6.4%. If final repayment is £7.92, XIRR would have been 6.37% as well. I guess RS rounded down 1p, unpaid interest would have been very close to 1p for 7 days of interest. I think the numbers you have shown i.e. 2dp are definitely rounded from maybe 5/6 dp. In Zopa they are shown much more accurately. That said the rounding up and down would be minimal I would have thought even using 2dp rather than 5 or even 6 dp. Of course on a much larger loan, I have one 4 figure one, that would perhaps have a bigger effect although its the same level of rounding so I'm not sure. I made the 7 days come to .22*12/365*7 = 5p ( I guessed the average monthly rate was about .22p looking at your numbers) This may have changed more recently, but several years ago unlike Zopa there was rounding of the amounts due to nearest penny. That said, I think the loan shown may be later as the March payment actually increased, but looks like a regular payment due to the timing.
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