benaj
Member of DD Central
N/A
Posts: 5,610
Likes: 1,739
|
Post by benaj on Oct 31, 2019 20:35:17 GMT
|
|
zlb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 333
|
Post by zlb on Nov 1, 2019 17:25:25 GMT
Would this have made a difference in the case of Lendy? It seems that prior money, stored for the service wouldn't have been enough. Even if these rules are in place, is it a guarantee that the pot of wind down money will remain untouched?
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Nov 1, 2019 19:25:13 GMT
"How much money should a wind down cost ?" is an interesting issue, and as zlb says any pre-ordained notional pot would unlikely to have been enough, even if not plundered.
Perhaps naively I've taken the view in the past that a wind down of a p2p loan book shouldn't cost that much (relatively speaking) .... there is all the general stuff that any company admin involves, there is communicating with borrowers who are able to refinance, and the mechanics of formal demand + appointing administrators/receivers for the remainder. The bulk of the work in realising the loanbook should be that performed by administrators/receievrs of the borrower not that performed by administrators of the platform. Clearly the costs of the former are deducted before the proceeds are remitted to the latter.
So far we've had COL's administration with the complications of lack of regulatory approval, lack of database, etc; Lendy's administration with multiple loans with legal claims post recovery, complications with a certain infamous borrower and their legal actions, poor AML records; and FS's administration with various unsecured loans and legal actions under way. And in all three cases a number of borrowers of dubious repute, who will be doing everything possible to impede progress.
Put simply, the loanbooks at the time the platforms fail are a complete mess, and will take a significant amount of managing (and hence cost) at the level above the individual borrower administrators/receivers. Spelt out this seems so obvious ... why would a platform with a "nice" loanbook fail ? .... but is a factor I've overlooked.
My theory (as per posts I've made in years past) that the costs of a wind down might be mostly covered by ongoing revenue from the loanbook was erroneous, as its now obvious that a a failed platform's loanbook is likely to include relatively few loans that provide ongoing revenue, and relatively many loans which need a significant effort to manage the exit.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Nov 1, 2019 22:42:02 GMT
"How much money should a wind down cost ?" is an interesting issue, and as zlb says any pre-ordained notional pot would unlikely to have been enough, even if not plundered.
Perhaps naively I've taken the view in the past that a wind down of a p2p loan book shouldn't cost that much (relatively speaking) .... I'll join your 'naive club' if I may. A platform wind down should be fairly straightforward but thinking about it, there would be no wind-down in place if the platform was operating correctly.
My concentration has always been, apart from some basic DD on the loan offerings, carrying out background checks on the platform itself prior to committing. Often this has thrown up what can only be described as horror results with a string of failed companies relating to the directors amongst other things.
Being generous, I'm sure platforms start off with the best intentions but after what appears to be the 18-24 month mark seem to go 'off the rails'. There are plenty of clues when this happens from a failure to provide timely updates, a failure to deal with defaults, a failure to answer straightforward questions, continuous can-kicking to massage the default stats I would assume, loans being made to connected parties, - the list is endless.
So when the inevitable happens then administrators are left with a mess often finding I'm sure misappropriated funds, inadequate (convenient) record keeping, etc, etc.
Whatever anyone may feel, the top of the pecking order for payment will be the administrators themselves. No doubt if challenged on their fees they could justify every single penny of expenditure. Lenders/investors are really just an afterthought - hence my assertion that with any failed platform the returns will be pennies in the pound. Although in the case of COL, it may turn out being close to zero after the administrators have had over 18 months on the job with a relatively smallish platform.
As I've posted before, I rue the day the ineffective FCA ever got involved. Their involvement gave platforms being run by con-men charlatans respectability and a false sense of security to lenders. I'm pleased I made my decision some 18 months ago to exit P2P although I do have several zombie loans with LY, FS and MT plus a small 5 figure sum in COL. Overall though the IRR is profitable even with zero future returns - in the 5-6% bracket. I originally got involved in the 2012-13 era. Feel sad though for those not as fortunate.
|
|
zlb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 333
|
Post by zlb on Nov 2, 2019 8:57:55 GMT
"How much money should a wind down cost ?" is an interesting issue, and as zlb says any pre-ordained notional pot would unlikely to have been enough, even if not plundered.
Perhaps naively I've taken the view in the past that a wind down of a p2p loan book shouldn't cost that much (relatively speaking) .... I'll join your 'naive club' if I may. A platform wind down should be fairly straightforward but thinking about it, there would be no wind-down in place if the platform was operating correctly.
My concentration has always been, apart from some basic DD on the loan offerings, carrying out background checks on the platform itself prior to committing. Often this has thrown up what can only be described as horror results with a string of failed companies relating to the directors amongst other things.
...
As I've posted before, I rue the day the ineffective FCA ever got involved. Their involvement gave platforms being run by con-men charlatans respectability and a false sense of security to lenders. I'm pleased I made my decision some 18 months ago to exit P2P although I do have several zombie loans with LY, FS and MT plus a small 5 figure sum in COL. Overall though the IRR is profitable even with zero future returns - in the 5-6% bracket. I originally got involved in the 2012-13 era. Feel sad though for those not as fortunate.
dodgy/inexperienced/inappropriate personalities/characters is a factor - was Lendy's LB an outlier of liars, in the bell curve of inappropriatenss? Or on other failed platforms, have others come close?
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Nov 2, 2019 9:30:53 GMT
I'll join your 'naive club' if I may. A platform wind down should be fairly straightforward but thinking about it, there would be no wind-down in place if the platform was operating correctly.
My concentration has always been, apart from some basic DD on the loan offerings, carrying out background checks on the platform itself prior to committing. Often this has thrown up what can only be described as horror results with a string of failed companies relating to the directors amongst other things.
...
As I've posted before, I rue the day the ineffective FCA ever got involved. Their involvement gave platforms being run by con-men charlatans respectability and a false sense of security to lenders. I'm pleased I made my decision some 18 months ago to exit P2P although I do have several zombie loans with LY, FS and MT plus a small 5 figure sum in COL. Overall though the IRR is profitable even with zero future returns - in the 5-6% bracket. I originally got involved in the 2012-13 era. Feel sad though for those not as fortunate.
dodgy/inexperienced/inappropriate personalities/characters is a factor - was Lendy's LB an outlier of liars, in the bell curve of inappropriatenss? Or on other failed platforms, have others come close? Ah yes possibly. But they did pass the FCA 'fit and proper' person test along with several others representing other platforms - some failed, some just going (in name only) and others..... So what would I know!!!
|
|
zlb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,422
Likes: 333
|
Post by zlb on Nov 2, 2019 9:56:13 GMT
'fit and proper' person - really? Wonder whether that is leverage for compensation - plenty of evidence of 'non-fit-and-proper'.
|
|