mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Nov 25, 2020 23:10:07 GMT
To be honest, given a choice*, I'd rather not take Ox/AZN vaccine until I learn more about the cluster**** that is injecting folk with the wrong dose of a experimental treatment. This is way more serious an error than leaving some mold to grow in a petri dish. How the **** can they make that mistake? Jesus *yes, I realise I will have no choice unless I splash out mega bucks - I'll be lucky to be offered any vaccine! 2000+ given the wrong dose. That's a pretty serious error. Not clear where the error crept in. I have the impression that UK papers are turning a bit of a blind eye on this issue. Take this from the NY Times: After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its VaccineScientists and industry experts said the error and a series of other irregularities and omissions in the way AstraZeneca initially disclosed the data have eroded their confidence in the reliability of the results.
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Nov 25, 2020 23:18:55 GMT
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,524
Likes: 6,316
|
Post by registerme on Nov 25, 2020 23:21:33 GMT
Well, the scrutiny is right and proper.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,944
Likes: 4,382
|
Post by agent69 on Nov 26, 2020 11:29:44 GMT
There's a postcode checker to see which tier you will be in on 3rd December. Not suprisingly, it's suffering technical difficulties
|
|
jlend
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 1,461
|
Post by jlend on Nov 26, 2020 11:45:28 GMT
Before it crashed I checked a few areas
Welwyn Garden City Tier 2 Aylesbury Tier 2 St Neots Tier 2 Brockworth Tier 2
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,944
Likes: 4,382
|
Post by agent69 on Nov 26, 2020 11:47:42 GMT
Only three areas make the lowest level of restrictions, tier one. They are as follows: Isle of Wight Cornwall
Isles of Scilly
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,944
Likes: 4,382
|
Post by agent69 on Nov 26, 2020 11:49:36 GMT
|
|
IFISAcava
Member of DD Central
Posts: 3,683
Likes: 3,008
|
Post by IFISAcava on Nov 26, 2020 11:50:41 GMT
So we are in Tier 2. Expect a lot of debate (aka pushing the rules to the limit) about what a "substantial meal" means. Reminds me of the 80s when you could only get a drink after 11 in a lot of places if you bought a plate of food with it - plenty of croquettes were had.
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,398
Likes: 1,695
|
Post by benaj on Nov 26, 2020 12:00:49 GMT
Regardless how Lockdown 2.0 / Tier 3 restrictions, places like Greater Manchester and Leicester are not out of the woods yet, still in Tier 3 🤦♂️
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,431
Likes: 2,898
Member is Online
|
Post by michaelc on Nov 26, 2020 13:02:56 GMT
2000+ given the wrong dose. That's a pretty serious error. Not clear where the error crept in. I have the impression that UK papers are turning a bit of a blind eye on this issue. Take this from the NY Times: After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its VaccineScientists and industry experts said the error and a series of other irregularities and omissions in the way AstraZeneca initially disclosed the data have eroded their confidence in the reliability of the results.Well its in the FT and some of the right of centre press. I couldn't find it in the BBC at all. The FT also notes that not only were there dosing errors but that the placebos varied. In the UK another established vaccine was given as a "placebo" and in Brazil a saline solution. I find this utterly incredible. Who agreed to that? As for "dosing errors", that could have ended up with multiple fatalities if the doses were say 10x instead of half couldn't it ? Where are the controls? I'm shocked.... And as an aside, why is there this bias in reporting? Are we being prepped for the azn vaccine ?
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,215
Likes: 11,408
|
Post by ilmoro on Nov 26, 2020 13:39:51 GMT
I have the impression that UK papers are turning a bit of a blind eye on this issue. Take this from the NY Times: After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its VaccineScientists and industry experts said the error and a series of other irregularities and omissions in the way AstraZeneca initially disclosed the data have eroded their confidence in the reliability of the results.Well its in the FT and some of the right of centre press. I couldn't find it in the BBC at all. The FT also notes that not only were there dosing errors but that the placebos varied. In the UK another established vaccine was given as a "placebo" and in Brazil a saline solution. I find this utterly incredible. Who agreed to that? As for "dosing errors", that could have ended up with multiple fatalities if the doses were say 10x instead of half couldn't it ? Where are the controls? I'm shocked.... And as an aside, why is there this bias in reporting? Are we being prepped for the azn vaccine ? FYI BBC TV news has covered it but not great detail
|
|
mrk
Posts: 807
Likes: 753
|
Post by mrk on Nov 26, 2020 14:01:55 GMT
I have the impression that UK papers are turning a bit of a blind eye on this issue. Take this from the NY Times: After Admitting Mistake, AstraZeneca Faces Difficult Questions About Its VaccineScientists and industry experts said the error and a series of other irregularities and omissions in the way AstraZeneca initially disclosed the data have eroded their confidence in the reliability of the results.Well its in the FT and some of the right of centre press. I couldn't find it in the BBC at all. The FT also notes that not only were there dosing errors but that the placebos varied. In the UK another established vaccine was given as a "placebo" and in Brazil a saline solution. I find this utterly incredible. Who agreed to that? As for "dosing errors", that could have ended up with multiple fatalities if the doses were say 10x instead of half couldn't it ? Where are the controls? I'm shocked.... And as an aside, why is there this bias in reporting? Are we being prepped for the azn vaccine ? Yes, more papers are picking up the story. It's in The Independent for example: AstraZeneca manufacturing error clouds vaccine study results. But not on the front page like on Bloomberg: AstraZeneca Faces More Vaccine Questions After Manufacturing Error. Many people have high hopes for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine: "Made in Britain", sold at cost and not for profit, easy to distribute even in poorer countries, and of course the UK has already pre-ordered 100M doses. Obviously that shouldn't be a reason to underplay potential issues, but the risk of bias in the UK is clear. And that's why I went to check what they said in the US media frankly. Personally I think we should wait for the final data and see what the regulators say. Despite the confusing interim announcement and some undeniable blunders along the way it may still turn out to be a good vaccine. But if the UK regulator approves it and the US FDA doesn't then I will have some doubts myself about getting that vaccine.
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,944
Likes: 4,382
|
Post by agent69 on Nov 26, 2020 14:50:47 GMT
Well its in the FT and some of the right of centre press. I couldn't find it in the BBC at all. The FT also notes that not only were there dosing errors but that the placebos varied. In the UK another established vaccine was given as a "placebo" and in Brazil a saline solution. I find this utterly incredible. Who agreed to that? As for "dosing errors", that could have ended up with multiple fatalities if the doses were say 10x instead of half couldn't it ? Where are the controls? I'm shocked.... And as an aside, why is there this bias in reporting? Are we being prepped for the azn vaccine ? FYI BBC TV news has covered it but not great detail Sky reporting that the half dose was only given to people under 50.
When the approving authorities look at the vaccine, what parameters do they look at before approval (or not). Is it just safety, or could the refuse approval because they think it isn't as effective as claimed?
|
|
|
Post by dan1 on Nov 26, 2020 15:00:18 GMT
Well its in the FT and some of the right of centre press. I couldn't find it in the BBC at all. The FT also notes that not only were there dosing errors but that the placebos varied. In the UK another established vaccine was given as a "placebo" and in Brazil a saline solution. I find this utterly incredible. Who agreed to that? As for "dosing errors", that could have ended up with multiple fatalities if the doses were say 10x instead of half couldn't it ? Where are the controls? I'm shocked.... And as an aside, why is there this bias in reporting? Are we being prepped for the azn vaccine ? Yes, more papers are picking up the story. It's in The Independent for example: AstraZeneca manufacturing error clouds vaccine study results. But not on the front page like on Bloomberg: AstraZeneca Faces More Vaccine Questions After Manufacturing Error. Many people have high hopes for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine: "Made in Britain", sold at cost and not for profit, easy to distribute even in poorer countries, and of course the UK has already pre-ordered 100M doses. Obviously that shouldn't be a reason to underplay potential issues, but the risk of bias in the UK is clear. And that's why I went to check what they said in the US media frankly. Personally I think we should wait for the final data and see what the regulators say. Despite the confusing interim announcement and some undeniable blunders along the way it may still turn out to be a good vaccine. But if the UK regulator approves it and the US FDA doesn't then I will have some doubts myself about getting that vaccine.Sounds like a sensible approach. From this... www.politico.com/news/2020/11/23/astrazeneca-fda-vaccine-authorization-439649...it would appear FDA require 30k late stage participants. The UK & Brazil trials had 24k participants but of those only 2.7k received the half dose. They've recruited 10k participants of a proposed 40k in the US. If FDA do not accept the Brazil findings as part of that 30k requirement then we're at least 28 days from approval in US, but more likely (because it takes time to recruit participants) we're looking at some time in January (assuming the results are good enough!). Oh, and those 2.7k in the UK were 55 or under, yikes.
|
|
Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,333
Likes: 2,753
Member is Online
|
Post by Greenwood2 on Nov 26, 2020 15:01:42 GMT
They are meant to be putting out a peer review paper (in a week or so?) which should clear up a lot of speculation, I hope. I guess normally that would have been done before preliminary results were released, but it's Covid!
|
|