Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 3, 2021 10:56:03 GMT
adrianc Reasons for "Anti_vax tosh" include scientists on the Radio yesterday referring to the vaccine as "technology", that feeds the antivaxxer theory that it contains a chip. But i do think that Government scientists etc should not overrule the makers of the vaccines with regard to dosages etc, I've heard from a source close to me that the vials hold 5 doses but some are being told give a slightly lower amount and we can get 6 doses from each rather than 5.
Have friends in the Netherlands they are fuming, the Government has commissioned a new database to record who had the vaccine and when, the population can't be immunised as the system isn't ready. www.pulsetoday.co.uk/uncategorised/gps-may-be-able-to-get-extra-dose-out-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-vial/#:~:text=GPs%20may%20be%20able%20to%20get%20an%20extra%20dose%20of,draw%20five%200.3ml%20doses. Seems the vials may contain 6 doses sometimes and in that case it shouldn't be wasted.
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Jan 3, 2021 11:04:04 GMT
Eldest son 38 (medic) had vax on Friday and passed out @ 20.00 hrs on sofa, as normal. No other contraindications.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 3, 2021 11:41:10 GMT
adrianc Reasons for "Anti_vax tosh" include scientists on the Radio yesterday referring to the vaccine as "technology", that feeds the antivaxxer theory that it contains a chip. But i do think that Government scientists etc should not overrule the makers of the vaccines with regard to dosages etc, I've heard from a source close to me that the vials hold 5 doses but some are being told give a slightly lower amount and we can get 6 doses from each rather than 5.
Have friends in the Netherlands they are fuming, the Government has commissioned a new database to record who had the vaccine and when, the population can't be immunised as the system isn't ready. www.pulsetoday.co.uk/uncategorised/gps-may-be-able-to-get-extra-dose-out-of-pfizer-covid-vaccine-vial/#:~:text=GPs%20may%20be%20able%20to%20get%20an%20extra%20dose%20of,draw%20five%200.3ml%20doses. Seems the vials may contain 6 doses sometimes and in that case it shouldn't be wasted. Yes, and extracting 6 doses using suitable syringes was authorised by the FDA in the US for example.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 3, 2021 11:46:12 GMT
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 3, 2021 11:47:20 GMT
You took that about as well as I expected It isn't about "taking it well". There is already a load of anti-vax tosh out there, and that will be increasingly so over the coming weeks and months. I think there is a responsibility on all of us to avoid feeding the machine by promoting false or near false stories, and to apply rigour / scrutiny when we come across them. Absolutely. But I don't think that should stop us from also applying rigour and scrutiny to decisions made by UK authorities, especially when they diverge from what e.g. the US and EU are doing.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 3, 2021 12:04:39 GMT
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Post by stevepn on Jan 3, 2021 12:25:54 GMT
Oh dear, and there was me thinking all was going well.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 3, 2021 12:37:54 GMT
adrianc Reasons for "Anti_vax tosh" include scientists on the Radio yesterday referring to the vaccine as "technology", that feeds the antivaxxer theory that it contains a chip. It is technology. Pharmatech. If the idiots leap on that as fuel for their conspiracy guff, then... Yes, they were giving a bit of a rundown on R4 yesterday. It's almost as if the EU isn't the monolithic amorphous federalised superstate blob that we've been told... Who knew?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 3, 2021 15:19:27 GMT
Dr Ramsay (public health england - my bold) added that on the "extremely rare occasions" where the same vaccine is unavailable or it is unknown which jab the patient received, it is "better to give a second dose of another vaccine than not at all".In my view public health england were stupid to issue this advise. Why even contemplate what happens if the second dose is not available if that is going to be extremely rare? If its not available then go make it available. Don't give me a risky, second class treatment. Or is that ok because I'm an extremely rare occurence? I note in the US they won't do that because they're frightened about being sued. It seems in the UK we citizens are worth much less because our treatment is given "free" and can therefore be mucked about with. Shocking.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 3, 2021 15:32:54 GMT
Dr Ramsay (public health england - my bold) added that on the "extremely rare occasions" where the same vaccine is unavailable or it is unknown which jab the patient received, it is "better to give a second dose of another vaccine than not at all".In my view public health england were stupid to issue this advise. Why even contemplate what happens if the second dose is not available if that is going to be extremely rare? If its not available then go make it available. Don't give me a risky, second class treatment. Or is that ok because I'm an extremely rare occurence? I note in the US they won't do that because they're frightened about being sued. It seems in the UK we citizens are worth much less because our treatment is given "free" and can therefore be mucked about with. Shocking. Not because it's the 'wrong' thing to do then, just chicken? What should they do in the UK if they don't know what vaccine you had before (or it's not available) not offer you anything? Would that be better? Giving guidance on what to do in various circumstances seems sensible, rather than waiting until it happens, which it will with 10's of millions of doses of vaccine being given.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 3, 2021 15:33:09 GMT
It isn't about "taking it well". There is already a load of anti-vax tosh out there, and that will be increasingly so over the coming weeks and months. I think there is a responsibility on all of us to avoid feeding the machine by promoting false or near false stories, and to apply rigour / scrutiny when we come across them. Absolutely. But I don't think that should stop us from also applying rigour and scrutiny to decisions made by UK authorities, especially when they diverge from what e.g. the US and EU are doing. I entirely agree. Which is absolutely why the increased interval should be critically assessed/questioned. The 'sub thread' here though followed the statement made in this post p2pindependentforum.com/post/415066 stating "The switch to initial single dose and subsequent mix & match vaccines.. "
That was the second time I had effectively seen that posited as a matter of fact, and hence my question as to where it was coming from - as I had not previously been successful in finding an original source for it. Turns out there is a reason for that....
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 3, 2021 16:08:38 GMT
Dr Ramsay (public health england - my bold) added that on the "extremely rare occasions" where the same vaccine is unavailable or it is unknown which jab the patient received, it is "better to give a second dose of another vaccine than not at all".In my view public health england were stupid to issue this advise. Why even contemplate what happens if the second dose is not available if that is going to be extremely rare? If its not available then go make it available. Don't give me a risky, second class treatment. Or is that ok because I'm an extremely rare occurence? I note in the US they won't do that because they're frightened about being sued. It seems in the UK we citizens are worth much less because our treatment is given "free" and can therefore be mucked about with. Shocking. Not because it's the 'wrong' thing to do then, just chicken? What should they do in the UK if they don't know what vaccine you had before (or it's not available) not offer you anything? Would that be better? Giving guidance on what to do in various circumstances seems sensible, rather than waiting until it happens, which it will with 10's of millions of doses of vaccine being given. It should be so rare that they don't need to contemplate it. What happens if the nurse giving the injection has a fit half way through giving it so it is not known how much has been adminsitered? What happens if ..... The problem with stating the scenario up front about what happens if we don't know who the patient is or we are unable to obtain any more of a specfic vaccine because all the manufacturer's facilities have exploded including the one where they keep the recipe should not be contemplated. In other words, if there is no vaccine left, we buy some more, make some more, buy the company that makes it and essentially pull out ALL the stops to get some. Stating up front what to do makes people more relaxed about it. "No more in the fridge until next Wednesday....lets give her the other one....." That is a scenario we do not want to encourage.
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 3, 2021 16:45:03 GMT
Yes, they were giving a bit of a rundown on R4 yesterday. It's almost as if the EU isn't the monolithic amorphous federalised superstate blob that we've been told... Who knew? It’s almost as if the EU isn’t the secure, mutually-beneficent, bureaucratic-paralysis-free, well-oiled machine that we’d been led to believe…
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 3, 2021 16:46:15 GMT
Yes, they were giving a bit of a rundown on R4 yesterday. It's almost as if the EU isn't the monolithic amorphous federalised superstate blob that we've been told... Who knew? It’s almost as if the EU isn’t the secure, mutually-beneficent, bureaucratic-paralysis-free, well-oiled machine that we’d been led to believe… You may need to explain how we get to there from individual governments cocking things up...? I mean, it's not as if our own handled everything perfectly up until 11pm Thursday, is it?
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Post by stevepn on Jan 3, 2021 16:47:22 GMT
Yes, they were giving a bit of a rundown on R4 yesterday. It's almost as if the EU isn't the monolithic amorphous federalised superstate blob that we've been told... Who knew? It’s almost as if the EU isn’t the secure, mutually-beneficent, bureaucratic-paralysis-free, well-oiled machine that we’d been led to believe… I think it was only Teflon Tony who actually ever believed that.
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