ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 28, 2021 12:21:08 GMT
one other snippet I read. True or not, I read that the EU did in fact provide funds to Azn specifically to contribute to investment in the UK manufacturing site. If so, and if the contract specifically calls out the UK site as a 'primary' and the european ones as 'secondary', then I would say they do have some right to be partially miffed. But none of us know what was in the contract, and there will obviously be posturing going on. Yeah I read that too. Cant actually find any reference to it from either Oxford Biomedica ( whose facility is using equipment provided by VMIC & part funded by UKGov and otherwise predates CV19) and CobraBio ( facility at Keele) which are the two UK manufacturers. Wrexham production plant is Indian owned. Nothing in EU press releases
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 28, 2021 12:29:55 GMT
The Swedish CEO of AZ Pascal Soriot gave a long and detailed interview to La Repubblica on 26th January which answers most of these questions.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 28, 2021 12:54:53 GMT
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 28, 2021 13:17:33 GMT
The Swedish CEO of AZ Pascal Soriot gave a long and detailed interview to La Repubblica on 26th January which answers most of these questions. Not sure the EC agrees. He's French by the way. Its the company which is Swedish (and British)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 28, 2021 13:24:50 GMT
Latest from Sky news.
The German medical authorities won't agree to the AZ vaccine being used on people over 65.
Can the EMA overide this, or must all 27 agree?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 28, 2021 13:30:16 GMT
Latest from Sky news.
The German medical authorities won't agree to the AZ vaccine being used on people over 65.
Can the EMA overide this, or must all 27 agree?
was that due to efficacy or safety risk concerns ?
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jan 28, 2021 13:49:03 GMT
Latest from Sky news.
The German medical authorities won't agree to the AZ vaccine being used on people over 65.
Can the EMA overide this, or must all 27 agree?
was that due to efficacy or safety risk concerns ? Insufficient data to determine efficacy looking at original FT report. Slightly odd as there isnt much data for over 55's so why pick 65. I believe EMA can't overrule as health care is at national level.
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 28, 2021 13:50:54 GMT
Latest from Sky news.
The German medical authorities won't agree to the AZ vaccine being used on people over 65.
Can the EMA overide this, or must all 27 agree?
The EMA gives the approval, then it's up to each national authority to decide exactly what to do with it. So it's possible that the EMA could approve it for all over 18, but Germany decide not to give it to over 65. It's likely that the EMA will in fact approve it without age restrictions, but mentioning that there's little data on over 65. (Same thing as UK authorities did by the way.)
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 28, 2021 13:52:40 GMT
You get the impression that some within the EU don't realise we have left, and still think they can tell us what to do. I still don't know how this will play out, but that may be unfair. I'd be willing to accept that the EU is playing to the gallery to deflect from its poor rollout of vaccines to date but this, if correct about the contract stipulating that two production sites in the UK were to be considered " primary", would give substance to their ire. Before taking early retirement from the construction industry I spent about 30 years sat behind a desk spending lots of time reading conditions of contract. The last thing you want to see in a contract is vague and woolly terms like 'primary'. What does it mean? Looking in the dictionary it says either:
- of chief importance - which raises the question what does 'chief importance' mean. For example if the secondary sites in EU produce 1 dose of the vaccine in February, would the UK plants be considered 'primary' if they produced 2 or more?, or
- earliest in time - so if AZ send the EU a dose from the UK before their EU plants, has this requirement been met?
I read the interview that the boss of AZ gave recently and he came across as somebody who knew what he had signed up to. If the EU wanted specific deliveries at specific times then the details should have been included in the contract (if there was such a schedule them I'm certain the EU would have told us by now). If the EU wanted a minimum percentage of deliveries to come from UK facilities then the contract should have sepecified that figure. Also is there anything in the contract that says that if the secondary plants cannot keep up with their (unspecified) obligations, the primary plants have to pick up the slack. The fact that the EU are using vague terms such as 'moral obligations' suggests they have made a real horlicks of this.
How will it play out - I assume AZ are using the bog standard 'bad news' model that companies employ when making redundancies. First anounce 1000 likely redundancies, when the dust settles start discussions with the unions and agree to cut the total to 500. Everyone breaths a sigh of relief and says it could have been worse. So I suspect AZ has a bit of a buffer up their sleeve, and during talks with EU will increase what they say they can supply.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 13:58:40 GMT
I suspect we have a few different things happening here
We have the facts on the ground 1) We don't know what the contract said it is under a seal. (no not an aquatic mammal) NDA
2) We actually don't even know who the contract is with as AZ may have done the deal through a subsidiary, who knows 3) In this sort of situation we have a negotiation going on. 4) EU negotiations are normally very slow so they lack experience of rapid negotiation systems so unfortunatly they have resorted to talking tough.
5) The negotiations will continue, they will get some more or appear to get some more (optics are truth in politics)
The facts in the political arena are more complicated 1) The EU took buying vaccines on itself for the 27
2) The Germans then bought some of their own (shock across the 27), suggesting the Germans don't trust Brussels to buy owt.
3) Distribution will be across the EU by size of country, accept the German stuff
4) The pharma authorisation centre used to be based in Britain, so the guys managing all this are from a relatively new organisation
5) Not being able to deliver this would be another indicator of incompetence after losing Britain, (I'm a remainer but one of the issues of Brexiteers is that the EU couldn't organise a p@@@ up in a brewery,) after making the terrible the China/EU deal of early January, failing to control Hungary/Poland in 2020/21, Turkish/Greek oil issues in the Med etc etc, this is further evidence of ineptitude 6) Elections are coming, Italy has just lost a Government and Merkel is on the way out, Maccron is not trusted by anyone in the EU as he over-defends France. Time for von der Leyen to step up 7) Boris's main success in his reign so far has been a competent vaccine roll out, if he "lets the Europeans steal our vaccine" he will be down the road to the abattoir faster than a turkey 10 days before Christmas
I guess we all have to sit back and watch these democratic societies and companies learn how to work together.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jan 28, 2021 14:27:28 GMT
The Swedish CEO of AZ Pascal Soriot gave a long and detailed interview to La Repubblica on 26th January which answers most of these questions. Not sure the EC agrees. He's French by the way. Its the company which is Swedish (and British) Yes, that is so, it is the AZ Chairman that is Swedish.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 28, 2021 14:33:43 GMT
Latest from Sky news.
The German medical authorities won't agree to the AZ vaccine being used on people over 65.
Can the EMA overide this, or must all 27 agree?
The EMA gives the approval, then it's up to each national authority to decide exactly what to do with it. So it's possible that the EMA could approve it for all over 18, but Germany decide not to give it to over 65. It's likely that the EMA will in fact approve it without age restrictions, but mentioning that there's little data on over 65. (Same thing as UK authorities did by the way.) So what's the point of the EMA?
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mrk
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Post by mrk on Jan 28, 2021 15:10:49 GMT
The EMA gives the approval, then it's up to each national authority to decide exactly what to do with it. So it's possible that the EMA could approve it for all over 18, but Germany decide not to give it to over 65. It's likely that the EMA will in fact approve it without age restrictions, but mentioning that there's little data on over 65. (Same thing as UK authorities did by the way.) So what's the point of the EMA? It allows a pharmaceutical company to get a single authorisation to market a product in all EU member states, rather than requiring 27 separate authorisations. So once approved the vaccine can be marketed in all member states. But it's still up to each individual country to decide how to roll it out to their population.
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Post by moonraker on Jan 28, 2021 16:46:43 GMT
Being over 70, I've been promised a jab by mid-February, not that I'm particularly desperate to get it. Just as well. A fortnight ago, my GP's surgery sent me a text with a link to click on to book an appointment at a surgery ten minutes' walk away, but no slots were available. Then I got a text cancelling the invitation. Today I had a letter from the NHS inviting me to book via a website. I entered my postcode - to find that the nearest site was 18 miles away, the next 21 miles away. I live in a town with a population of 170,000. The website assures me that more sites are becoming available all the time and to keep on trying.
I'm posting this by way of observation, not complaint.
But ... at 1500 this afternoon I had a text from my surgery with a link by which to make an appointment. I clicked on it and got the first appointment on Saturday morning! I'm glad now that I didn't waste nervous energy fulminating about having to travel 18 miles or further - and that I hadn't made an appointment to do so. However, judging from comments on my local NextDoor website some people have done just that, one making a round trip of 90 miles..
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 28, 2021 17:05:22 GMT
Still, given that Germany has now said it ain't going to authorise the Azn for the over 65's, if they are going to run similar prioritisation to the UK then that is a stack less Azn vaccine that is needed in the immediate short term, and the whole dispute withers on the vine (joking of course, but DE is quite a large piece of the EU bloc by head count).
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