Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Dec 22, 2021 15:05:41 GMT
Winter is always brutal in the NHS.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 22, 2021 15:14:46 GMT
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 22, 2021 15:46:13 GMT
Winter is always brutal in the NHS. True enough  .
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 22, 2021 16:42:20 GMT
But only for London?
I see BBC are headlining the fact that covid cases have increased 60% week on week. Still don't equate to doubling every 2 - 3 days
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 22, 2021 16:56:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2021 17:29:16 GMT
Passports for entry to restaurants, bars, theatres, public transport Passports for entry to shops
After one month Passports to pay the correct price for all items in shops No passport pay 15% extra
After one more month Passport to receive benefits Passport to avoid 20% tax hike
After a final month Vaccinate or deportation
No, I don't care
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Dec 22, 2021 17:42:34 GMT
Can we have Passports / Passes that last >48 hours please
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 22, 2021 17:50:45 GMT
Passports for entry to restaurants, bars, theatres, public transport Passports for entry to shops
After one month Passports to pay the correct price for all items in shops No passport pay 15% extra
After one more month Passport to receive benefits Passport to avoid 20% tax hike
After a final month Vaccinate or deportation
No, I don't care
If only
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Dec 22, 2021 18:00:29 GMT
A typical response from somebody who can't justify their position.
I recall Chris Whitty presenting risk reward information for various age groups taking the vaccine at one of the downing street press conferences. There was a large reward for older people, which reduced with age. However, even the younger age groups had a minor benefit (to themselves, not society at large). There was no age group where taking the vaccine was greater risk than not taking it.
Regarding you earlier comment regarding the dilema that non-vaccinted people face, I don't believe that generally that is the case. There are a small group of people who should not be vaccinated because of health reason. There are also small groups (such as pregnant women) where there may be some dilema. However, for the overwhelming majority of non-vaccinated people it is just a lifestyle choice. What dilema did Piers Corbyn face before deciding not to get vaccinted?
Yes I admit I'm lazy but fired up Google. How about this: www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957/rr-1
Do you know the people that produced this report? Are they reliable, impartial and knowledgeable in the field of virology?
I haven't heard of any of them so I googled the first 2 on the list. One is a prominent critic of modern drug treatment and the next was expelled from the board of a prominent medical establishment because of an ongoing and consistent pattern of disruptive and inappropriate behaviours ..., taking place over a number of years.
Call me an old cynic, but I think I'll stick with the views of SAGE and JCVI unless you can come up with something more credible
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Dec 22, 2021 18:35:37 GMT
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 22, 2021 19:03:39 GMT
Do you know the people that produced this report? Are they reliable, impartial and knowledgeable in the field of virology?
I haven't heard of any of them so I googled the first 2 on the list. One is a prominent critic of modern drug treatment and the next was expelled from the board of a prominent medical establishment because of an ongoing and consistent pattern of disruptive and inappropriate behaviours ..., taking place over a number of years.
Call me an old cynic, but I think I'll stick with the views of SAGE and JCVI unless you can come up with something more credible
Slightly unfair criticism, I think. "[Prof] Moncrieff is not completely opposed to the use of drugs for mental health problems, but believes that the action of drugs in these situations is misunderstood". She has written books questioning the over-prescription of drugs in mental health, and it's probably a good thing that the subject gets an airing from time to time. It's quite a common view amongst doctors that we over-prescribe in general, so her stance is hardly controversial. In any case, there were 22 prominent signatories on this response to the BMJ article, not just the two you've dismissed rather too readily here.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 22, 2021 19:19:51 GMT
If you are referring to the UK, then back that up with actual historical information and data. The UK has been one of the most cautious when it comes to offering vaccination to the youngest age groups. It has been behind pretty much everywhere in offering it to the 17+, 15-17 age, 12+ cohorts. And even now the UK is not administering to <12 yr old, when other countries are. In fact when it was finally offered to 12-15 cohort, I think the JCVI stayed neutral in its advice, stating that the health gain was there but too small, but recognising that the govt. might want to take into account other impacts (particularly educational loss/disruption impacts due to isolation). [for information the link to their statement is here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/jcvi-statement-september-2021-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15-years/jcvi-statement-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15-years-3-september-2021] I think that is a sign that the MHRA and JCVI have very carefully considered the balance of risks and benefits to individuals, and have waited for more data to emerge on side effects on the young, (and this is an assertion rather than one I can immediately point my finger at, but as I recall some side effects such as heart inflammation have turned out to be less serious/common than initially reported). Something that it is impossible to deny - except if one is a conspiracy theorist, or a Russian/Chinese internet disinformation provocateur - is this is the most closely monitored rollout of any pharmacological medical intervention in history, with every country in the world involved, with every medical regulatory authority involved, with the greatest ever real time sharing of information across geographic and scientific boundaries, and with all the power of modern computer technology/big data/data science brought to the fight. It is of course also rather blindingly obvious that if one were to support 'mandation' (in whatever form) that doesn't have to mean all population cohorts. Resorting essentially to name calling. Oh dear .... Edit: And just to add that shutting out any kind of debate is exactly what is peeing a lot of people off and far worse may end up with the wrong choices (when those people are top level scientists) : why did you think that was directed at you ? I don't recall you denying anything that I stated in that para, so no reason on earth why it would have been intended to be directed at you. Perhaps you need to re-read it. Or do you not agree that it is the most closely monitored rollout of any pharmacological medical intervention in our history ? Also why is debating something on here 'shutting down debate' ?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Dec 22, 2021 19:38:54 GMT
Resorting essentially to name calling. Oh dear .... Edit: And just to add that shutting out any kind of debate is exactly what is peeing a lot of people off and far worse may end up with the wrong choices (when those people are top level scientists) @michalec: why did you think that was directed at you ? I don't recall you denying anything that I stated in that para, so no reason on earth why it would have been intended to be directed at you. Perhaps you need to re-read it. Or do you not agree that it is the most closely monitored rollout of any pharmacological medical intervention in our history ? Also why is debating something on here 'shutting down debate' ? In which case I take it back. I hope you don't blame me for thinking that though given: a/ it was in direct reply to me and b/ you aren't the first forumite to accuse me of it ! P.S. I'm happy to attempt to pass a Turing test to put the matter to rest 
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 22, 2021 19:46:34 GMT
I don't think this was posted higher up, and looks to be reasonably 'breaking': Initial UK specific data on Omicron Hospitlisation ratesAnd the report it references: www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-50-severity-omicron/I guess this is kinda of good news, but given the suspected/believed much higher level of infectiveness, I'm not sure its completely good news (15% less likely to attend hospital, 40% less likely to be hospitlised for 1 night or more). I've not read beyond the twitter post / first few sentences. I'm not sure how certain they could be about this just yet, given how early in the day it is, and the lag on PCR confirmations (albeit I think the quick part which is the blah blah blah (S gene dropout) is pretty quickly/easily detected and I think now assumed to be 'O' without full genome sequencing). |
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Dec 22, 2021 19:47:40 GMT
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