aju
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Post by aju on Jan 29, 2020 14:54:37 GMT
Just spotted this article in P2P Finance News funding-circle-completes-seventh-securitisation
I know some people will not know how to read this if they have used up their P2PFN quota and do not have a subscription to P2PFinanceNews (try incognito it might work) and I know this relates to Funding Circle but it is interesting that these type of things are going on. Ok I'm not in FC and probably won't be but one wonders what these P2P companies do under the hood. Investopedia has an interesting and worrying slant of this securitization process. Am I off the beaten track in this case or should I be concerned as I say I'm not in FC but I am in Zopa and RS quite a bit is it likely they are doing similar things perhaps. Hopefully i'm completely out of touch/understanding but if not - who knows. |
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Post by propman on Jan 29, 2020 16:56:15 GMT
What concerns you about these? The sales of defaulted loans by RS & Zopa may have been securitisations directly or pckaged by the recipients into securitisations. I am not aware of either selling performing loans into securitisation vehicles, but as much of Zopa is now institutional funded, these could include such offerings.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Jan 29, 2020 16:58:00 GMT
Nowadays (after the 2008 debacle) institutions are much better at assessing risk, and this is a good way for them to get access to the SME loans market. Nothing to worry about.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 29, 2020 17:20:47 GMT
What concerns you about these? The sales of defaulted loans by RS & Zopa may have been securitisations directly or pckaged by the recipients into securitisations. I am not aware of either selling performing loans into securitisation vehicles, but as much of Zopa is now institutional funded, these could include such offerings. A long as the loans I am funding are not actually funding into these other than my defaults being sold on to these securitizations then I will be ok. I guess in RS and Zopa it would have to be clear that I was not funding into these. Where they wrap up my defaulted loans and sell on I'm not really rsed I guess. According to the ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA site ... Sounds a bit dodgy to me, its only one small step before P2P finds a way to do this. I'm surprised it's not happened yet if it hasn't. I know that I am being a bit devils advocate but what if RS or Zopa were to take on one of these and then package it again into smaller loans to us who is to say that our defaults that were sold off at a certain value and then passed back on to the market each as smaller loans so we are not too freaked how would we know. Isn't that what the cause of the recent financial crash was all about in simple terms just reselling and repackaging the same dud stuff. Okay so hopefully the regs, not very convinced though, would spot this in some way would they not!.
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 29, 2020 17:25:09 GMT
Nowadays (after the 2008 debacle) institutions are much better at assessing risk, and this is a good way for them to get access to the SME loans market. Nothing to worry about. Oh dear, what experience have I got of assessing whether a P2P Loan is not a part of a similar vehicle unless I am told as such by he P2P I maybe using. I'm not expecting this just wondering how I would be able determine it after its my money being lent to a borrower whatever they guise they maybe in. Edit: I notice that RS has stopped some of the more interesting lending options in its portfolio. One that caught my eye was stopped in Jan 2019 on divorce settlements - quite large funds could be involved and it seemed that repayment was dependant on the divorce settlement. I guess it might have been stopped if there were few cases where the bottower failed to win the case to a level that would pay the loan off!.
Family finance (discontinued in January 2020) where Securities Loans were secured against the proceeds of the divorce settlement. See "Other" section in RS A diversified portfolio pages refer.
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ashtondav
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Post by ashtondav on Jan 29, 2020 18:23:44 GMT
Nowadays (after the 2008 debacle) institutions are much better at assessing risk, and this is a good way for them to get access to the SME loans market. Nothing to worry about. Oh dear, what experience have I got of assessing whether a P2P Loan is not a part of a similar vehicle unless I am told as such by he P2P I maybe using. I'm not expecting this just wondering how I would be able determine it after its my money being lent to a borrower whatever they guise they maybe in. Edit: I notice that RS has stopped some of the more interesting lending options in its portfolio. One that caught my eye was stopped in Jan 2019 on divorce settlements - quite large funds could be involved and it seemed that repayment was dependant on the divorce settlement. I guess it might have been stopped if there were few cases where the bottower failed to win the case to a level that would pay the loan off!.
Family finance (discontinued in January 2020) where Securities Loans were secured against the proceeds of the divorce settlement. See "Other" section in RS A diversified portfolio pages refer.Not sure i understand AJU?
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aju
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Post by aju on Jan 29, 2020 19:10:18 GMT
Oh dear, what experience have I got of assessing whether a P2P Loan is not a part of a similar vehicle unless I am told as such by he P2P I maybe using. I'm not expecting this just wondering how I would be able determine it after its my money being lent to a borrower whatever they guise they maybe in. Edit: I notice that RS has stopped some of the more interesting lending options in its portfolio. One that caught my eye was stopped in Jan 2019 on divorce settlements - quite large funds could be involved and it seemed that repayment was dependant on the divorce settlement. I guess it might have been stopped if there were few cases where the bottower failed to win the case to a level that would pay the loan off!.
Family finance (discontinued in January 2020) where Securities Loans were secured against the proceeds of the divorce settlement. See "Other" section in RS A diversified portfolio pages refer.Not sure i understand AJU? I was being obtuse I guess in that I am not in control of any of the P2P loans that I am lending to and in my case I rely on Zopa and RS using my money in a way that does not mean I will be exposed to the illiquid type loans under discussion in the original article. In essence I am not qualified or have the knowledge of who the loans I make are going to. The P2P lender is the one with all the info and control I just supply the money at a rate I determine if I want to or in the case of Zopa I don;t even have the control of the rates. My secondary points above were that it looks rather like RS was perhaps skating on a little thin ice with some of their older loan vehicles and they stopped using them - perhaps the regulator was not happy with some of them them although the dates of their removal are not an indicator of that. Of course none of those portfolio items display evidence of securitization issues but it goes to show there are many potential blind spots to us lenders sometimes, I've been with RS now for just over a year and only just noticed the pages concerned here. In the case of Zopa there is even less information than I dug up on the RS stuff (I must copy the RS document before RS pulls or updates it again perhaps!)
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Feb 3, 2020 21:29:50 GMT
aju there's a blog post on Z about their first securitization Here blog.zopa.com/2016/09/27/zopa-and-securitisation/ this got a risk rating of AA(+some other letter(s)) but I think their latest one got an AAA rating. This is all goes over my head. But what interested me was that their first one has a charge to HSBC. Simple things please me. The securitized Zopa product is called:
Marketplace Originated Consumer Assets Searching that name gives a lot more detail, here's the CH record I think it lists them all (all 3)
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aju
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Post by aju on Feb 4, 2020 0:28:06 GMT
aju there's a blog post on Z about their first securitization Here blog.zopa.com/2016/09/27/zopa-and-securitisation/ this got a risk rating of AA(+some other letter(s)) but I think their latest one got an AAA rating. This is all goes over my head. But what interested me was that their first one has a charge to HSBC. Simple things please me. The securitized Zopa product is called:
Marketplace Originated Consumer Assets Searching that name gives a lot more detail, here's the CH record I think it lists them all (all 3)
Thx, all very interesting I guess for someone who knows how to read that stuff, to be honest though I'm with you on the over the head comment. There are a lot of things in those documents on CH but even though I have a rough idea how to read zopa's entries - in the words of that great philosopher Danny Dyer on Brexit - I haven't got an "effing" clue about the MOCA entries other than there are pages and pages of signatories on them, for want of a better term! I not sure there is that much simple about HSBC though  (They didn't see fit to allow me to become a customer when I last tried!)
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(They didn't see fit to allow me to become a customer when I last tried!)